Leeds Utd 0-0 Brentford Match Thread - Post Match Debate

[SG90]

Brighton had a good manager

We are doing worse than under Bielsa (I was wrong it seems) . .

He was sacked after 26 games though, not 19. And we had the worst GD in the league at the time.

[Cjay]

I understand examining trends. And it's pretty common use a five game sample when looking at current form. Your point was to examine the season. Not current form. Therefore you didn't need to cherry pick the sample.

Yeah OK fair enough

The season has been so poor tbf it isnt necessary.

[weasel]

Fair enough i'll check it out. I take it you didn't like the performance today.

It was a strange performance to evaluate. We huffed and puffed and never really looked like scoring. Brentford seemed to not be up for it either, maybe the cold, and seemed very content to not really do anything. I think all match they were happy to wait for the 1 good breakaway chance - maybe they expected that if they defended deep they would get a few breakaway chances and didn't seem inclined to deviate from their gameplan.

The concern I have is that despite all our attacking flair we didn't carry much threat. I think people got carried away by the Villa performance and the Cardiff replay performance. The only trouble is that against Villa because they scored in the 3rd minute their gameplan then was to drop deep, allowing us to look better. Against Cardiff because we scored in the first minute it meant they couldn't simply defend and try to hit us on the counter, thus playing into our hands. Also worth noting how poor a side Cardiff are.

It was a meh performance. Nothing to get excited about, a point on the board which basically keeps us about where we were before the weekend.

[Cjay]

He was sacked after 26 games though, not 19. And we had the worst GD in the league at the time.

And he should have been sacked sooner (blasphemy I know).

The half season mark with 3 pre seasons effectively is more than enough time to judge Marsch.

[The Subhuman]

Yeah OK fair enough

The season has been so poor tbf it isnt necessary.

TBF to Hecky (probably a better manager than Marsch) he got no pre season, none of his own players added, inherited a team rock bottom in confidence and with a complete lack of fitness...

[SG90]

TBF to Hecky (probably a better manager than Marsch) he got no pre season, none of his own players added, inherited a team rock bottom in confidence and with a complete lack of fitness...

And we were never lower than 9th under TC. Heckaday is doing well because of parachute payments.

[BlackHillsPaul]

Yeah OK fair enough

The season has been so poor tbf it isnt necessary.

Exactly!!

[Jaydog]

Just finished watching it. Strange game. Couple of half chances. Some decent defending at times. Like Wober,
did he give Koch a bit more confidence?
Ah well. Better than losing but we never really went for it. Getting in each others way too much and Brentford are a canny side. Came for a point. Got one

[weasel]

He was sacked after 26 games though, not 19. And we had the worst GD in the league at the time.

The trouble though is that Bielsa was given 26 matches because he'd had success with us previously and we had seen bad runs followed by good runs - so there was actual evidence to suggest he could turn it around as he had done it, with us previously - even after losing 7-0 to Man City, and then 4-1 to Arsenal we then beat Burnley 3-1 and West Ham 3-2.

There is no evidence that Marsch is capable of turning this around. No evidence at former clubs either. If a team is doing well, as NY RB were before he went there and how Salsburg were than simply going in with the 'rah rah' spirit and mentality can work as the players are already performing well and used to winning. Same scenario with Heckingbottom taking over a Barnsley side that was flying and they continued to do well initially and then they started to get worse and worse the longer he stayed.

The squad this season is far stronger. The manager though is far weaker. As such we are doing similar to last season (slightly worse at present but more or less the same).

[BlackHillsPaul]

It was a strange performance to evaluate. We huffed and puffed and never really looked like scoring. Brentford seemed to not be up for it either, maybe the cold, and seemed very content to not really do anything. I think all match they were happy to wait for the 1 good breakaway chance - maybe they expected that if they defended deep they would get a few breakaway chances and didn't seem inclined to deviate from their gameplan.

The concern I have is that despite all our attacking flair we didn't carry much threat. I think people got carried away by the Villa performance and the Cardiff replay performance. The only trouble is that against Villa because they scored in the 3rd minute their gameplan then was to drop deep, allowing us to look better. Against Cardiff because we scored in the first minute it meant they couldn't simply defend and try to hit us on the counter, thus playing into our hands. Also worth noting how poor a side Cardiff are.

It was a meh performance. Nothing to get excited about, a point on the board which basically keeps us about where we were before the weekend.

For all the attacking intent, we had no flair....

[SG90]

The trouble though is that Bielsa was given 26 matches because he'd had success with us previously and we had seen bad runs followed by good runs - so there was actual evidence to suggest he could turn it around as he had done it, with us previously - even after losing 7-0 to Man City, and then 4-1 to Arsenal we then beat Burnley 3-1 and West Ham 3-2.

There is no evidence that Marsch is capable of turning this around. No evidence at former clubs either. If a team is doing well, as NY RB were before he went there and how Salsburg were than simply going in with the 'rah rah' spirit and mentality can work as the players are already performing well and used to winning. Same scenario with Heckingbottom taking over a Barnsley side that was flying and they continued to do well initially and then they started to get worse and worse the longer he stayed.

The squad this season is far stronger. The manager though is far weaker. As such we are doing similar to last season (slightly worse at present but more or less the same).

Idk if it's far stronger. We tried to do it on the cheap for the majority and only woke up that we need to spend a few days ago. Sini has been injured 4 months, Adams is Kalvin's replacement, the only real difference is Rodrigo stepping up. We've definitely missed Raph, I don't see how that can be argued tbh. I'd say we're similar to last season. We'll see what Ritter is like. We can't afford for him to be a flop.

[Cjay]

TBF to Hecky (probably a better manager than Marsch) he got no pre season, none of his own players added, inherited a team rock bottom in confidence and with a complete lack of fitness...

We will never agree on Hecky which is OK.

But Marsch having effectively 3 pre seasons and still even today claiming his thing about confidence and tactical clarity is a massive red flag.

[weasel]

For all the attacking intent, we had no flair....

I agree

[Poshwhite]

You don't need to cherry pick samples to make your point. As if the first 3 games of the season don't count.

We have 4 wins in 19 matches. Not good enough. That's all you have to say...

I can actually say what I think and is real, therefore we are struggling, fact

[Clueless Yank]

The trouble though is that Bielsa was given 26 matches because he'd had success with us previously and we had seen bad runs followed by good runs - so there was actual evidence to suggest he could turn it around as he had done it, with us previously - even after losing 7-0 to Man City, and then 4-1 to Arsenal we then beat Burnley 3-1 and West Ham 3-2.

There is no evidence that Marsch is capable of turning this around. No evidence at former clubs either. If a team is doing well, as NY RB were before he went there and how Salsburg were than simply going in with the 'rah rah' spirit and mentality can work as the players are already performing well and used to winning. Same scenario with Heckingbottom taking over a Barnsley side that was flying and they continued to do well initially and then they started to get worse and worse the longer he stayed.

I agree (as a total outsider to your club) that Bielsa had earned quite a bit of leeway. OTOH trying to turn your luck around is one thing when you're losing 2-1 and another when you're losing 4-1. Maybe they recovered a bit after Man City, but 17 conceded 2 scored in the prior four matches is way beyond where this team is now, for all its faults.

(I'm here to be cautiously pro-Marsch, not anti-Bielsa, but it's not hard to see what a bad situation Jesse came despite MB's merited acclaim overall.)

[Barlow Boy]

Well that was about as drab as it gets, very tedious stuff from both sides.

Not sure if it was the early KO, the cold or just general mood but the atmosphere was pretty much non existent, without doubt the worst of the season so far.

Not often I’m pleased to hear the final whistle and head back to the car, but I was today.

[Jaydog]

XG 0.42 x 0.24
don’t take metrics that seriously but…

[weasel]

I agree (as a total outsider to your club) that Bielsa had earned quite a bit of leeway. OTOH trying to turn your luck around is one thing when you're losing 2-1 and another when you're losing 4-1. Maybe they recovered a bit after Man City, but 17 conceded 2 scored in the prior four matches is way beyond where this team is now, for all its faults.

(I'm here to be cautiously pro-Marsch, not anti-Bielsa, but it's not hard to see what a bad situation Jesse came despite MB's merited acclaim overall.)

Such a bad situation yet we'd only conceded 4 more goals at this point of the season last year and had a point more too. Like I say though it is about judging JM on what he has done here, not against Bielsa, Hecky, TC, Monk etc and JM's performance has been dire.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Which? That Harrison would play poorly (which he didn't) or that some malcontent would say he did.

Neither Harrison nor Aaronson played brilliantly today, but both were certainly decent I could have told you, though, on Thursday the consensus of opinion on these pages would be that they both were useless and Marsch is a moron.

Well said.

Aaronson had an above average game. Harrison played well - has done in the last 3 games.

[andrewjohnsmith]

The key there is to drag them out of position, switching play from side to side, creating overloads etc. Playing narrow makes it so much easier cos they can then play narrow and pack the box. We simply played into Brentford's hands and they were happy to sit back, soak up possession and look to hit us on the break - thankfully they didn't manage to get a decent breakway today,

I'd say the same. There were often 5 Brentford bodies on the edge of the box. You're not going to run through them. The obvious answer is to whip in crossed from both sides and get behind them.