Leeds Utd v Portsmouth Match Thread

[Orange Box]

Too many substitutes often disrupt the flow & rhythm of our game, as it generally did last season.

Around the 70th minute, my pal asked would make any changes? We both agreed there was no need to make any subs, however within minutes Farke had three of them stripped off & ready to go. From that moment the game died as a spectacle, with lots of fouls & messy play, the game was now even as we were down to Pompey's level.

I’m with you and your mate, only reason I could see for a change was if someone was blowing badly. Change for change sake wasn’t a great idea imo

[1964white]

Nice to see Farke hug Brenden, who was obviously upset at missing the chance to win the game.

[1964white]

I’m with you and your mate, only reason I could see for a change was if someone was blowing badly. Change for change sake wasn’t a great idea imo

The tempo & fluency of our play was significantly noticeable in the final twenty minutes. I still thought we were going to win the game, even at 1-2 down. The changes only enhanced the chances of Pompey winning the match, and they almost stole it.

[weasel]

If Farke had of won then he'd have got praise regardless of the performance.

As it happened we got worse and still didn't win, no manager gets praise for that.

You literally said



So if you aren't implying the players aren't good enough to start what are you saying? Something you said repeatedly last season incidentally but conveniently forget now.

I'm twisting nothing, you are bending over backwards to absolve Farke again as usual.

He got it wrong, we played well in parts, he was found wanting when trying to impact the game from the bench.

Not the players fault, his, he made the wrong changes and too many at once.

He also mentioned xG aren't we going to ridicule that? Blamed the players also specifically? Shall we not call him up on that like Hecky?

Simples.

Hopefully he learned something and we win soon.

It wasn't even a massive criticism, but you won't let it just be partly on him.

Not our German Southgate

Again twisting words to suit your anti-Farke narrative. The players starting are better than the subs. That doesn't mean the subs are rubbish. What it does mean though is that they won't automatically come on and become better than the player they replace, especially if the player they replace has played well.

I actually said it appeared Farke got it wrong in terms of performance after the subs. However like I said one sub scored and one had an assist. It was, and probably should have been two goals scored and then Farke looks like a genius. That is the main point I made as most of us probably didn't watch every Ipswich game last season to see how Ipswich performed after the subs we just notice that a sub scored or influenced games. So maybe the subs were wrong in terms of us continuing to play the same way but were actually right in terms of us playing a different way, a plan B if you like, and creating better chances.

You simply want to twist everything to have a go at Farke. It is childish and you should try to be objective, like I have done.

I am with Farke in that we need to be better against xg. If we take a couple of chances early on then the game is likely very different. Where it differs against Marsch's xg assertions is that we watched the performances under Marsch and deservedly got beat the majority of times, it wasn't like we were having 22 shots to the opposition's 5. That is the key difference. Similar to how we were under Bielsa we are battering teams but often just getting narrow wins or draws in matches when we should be winning at a canter.

[weasel]

I didnt think Rodon looked his usual assured self even last week against Valencia. Yes he was as strong as an ox when he needed to be but his game lacked a bit of composure and he didnt look like he was completely at one playing with Pascal. Maybe its going to take a bit of time for him to get bedded in with Pascal and Bogel at the back.

A very valid point as defences usually get better with understanding. Rodon had I feel formed a better partnership than he had with Struyjk and it is also worth noting that quite a few of the games he played with Struyjk they also had Ayling playing. Ayling and Bogle are very different to how Gray was at full back. Hopefully though it won't take them long to get used to each other and solid again. That said for the main part we did defend well. Switched off for the first goal, second I think you give credit to the scorer as the clearance wasn't the worst in the world and the 3rd looked like it was a foul on Bogle before he fouled their lad.

[JoeDenver]

I hope Farke has learned a lesson today, stupid man!

Hopefully it’s one around the 60 min mark and then 1-2 around the 70 min mark if things still aren’t working. Late subs don’t give players enough time to get into the game and three simultaneously when not all warranted is bizarre. Really thought James and perhaps Gruev were the only worthwhile subs to be made…so that would’ve meant Rothwell and either Aaronson or Piroe on. But still should’ve staggered the two. DF NEVER seems to get subs right.

[Cjay]

Again twisting words to suit your anti-Farke narrative. The players starting are better than the subs. That doesn't mean the subs are rubbish. What it does mean though is that they won't automatically come on and become better than the player they replace, especially if the player they replace has played well.



I actually said it appeared Farke got it wrong in terms of performance after the subs. However like I said one sub scored and one had an assist. It was, and probably should have been two goals scored and then Farke looks like a genius. That is the main point I made as most of us probably didn't watch every Ipswich game last season to see how Ipswich performed after the subs we just notice that a sub scored or influenced games. So maybe the subs were wrong in terms of us continuing to play the same way but were actually right in terms of us playing a different way, a plan B if you like, and creating better chances.


You simply want to twist everything to have a go at Farke. It is childish and you should try to be objective, like I have done.


I am with Farke in that we need to be better against xg. If we take a couple of chances early on then the game is likely very different. Where it differs against Marsch's xg assertions is that we watched the performances under Marsch and deservedly got beat the majority of times, it wasn't like we were having 22 shots to the opposition's 5. That is the key difference. Similar to how we were under Bielsa we are battering teams but often just getting narrow wins or draws in matches when we should be winning at a canter.

I'd wrote out a long response but I cba.

If I'm childish you are a hypocrite.

Own it.

[JoeDenver]

Gnonto (cross bar) and Joseph should both have scored too. Just as easy as the chance Aaronson had.

Thought Geo had a nice open look at goal, but got no power on the shot as he instead tried placing it. Problem is that he “placed it” directly at the keeper.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Thought Geo had a nice open look at goal, but got no power on the shot as he instead tried placing it. Problem is that he “placed it” directly at the keeper.

There were a few kicked straight at the keeper. I guess that's just as bad as missing the target.

[weasel]

1) You aren't in any way objective you are massively biased in favour of Farke and go out of your way more than I've ever known you to for any manager to absolve him and protect him from criticism.

Even minor criticism you have to wade in like the white Knight.

B) Marsch whether we like him or not had point on xG, you can't manipulate xG its either good or not and when he said we should have done better on xG he was right.

But it was mocked by you and others? Why is Farke different? Its literally the same stat. And as you said regarding Marsch irrelevant in the bigger picture.


C) He specifically said Aaronson made mistakes and Piroe when asked why it went wrong with the subs, is that not blaming the players? Is that not what Hecky got hammered for? Farke took 0 responsibility for it, why is he able to do that in your book?

You call me childish and whatever I don't care about that.

But I'm not a hypocrite and where Farke is concerned you absolutely are.

I got the Bielsa obsession to a degree, your Farke one is weird.

A) I would say 80% of what Farke has done here has been excellent. I certainly feel we are in a far better state than we were when he took over. If we were getting battered every week, or even winning but getting battered stats wise then I would be concerned. We aren't. Could we be doing better? Perhaps a little. Could we be doing worse? Yes a whole lot worse. We have seen many relegated teams that were in better shape than us do nothing or even flirt with relegation to League 1. Farke galvanised the club and got us to a points total that would normally win promotion - sadly you think that is worth criticising and that he isn't allowed to ever mention that he got 90 points.

B) Like I already said the Marsch hyperbole in regard to XG was undermined by what happened on the pitch. With our performances under Farke I am struggling to recall a game that we won that we didn't deserve to win and there were not many matches where the oppositon had more shots or a result where the xg was in the opposition's favour. That is the difference. Same as under Bielsa I believe in the process and that if you regularly have 4 or 5 times as many shots as the oppsoiton you should win most matches. For me it is history repeating itself as the Bielsa team rarely won matches as comfortably as they should. So the same problem has arisen. Even today we could and should have been a couple of goals in front and we then probabyl blow Portsmouth away. If we match the xg today then no one is talking about whether substittuions were wrong or right or about two defensive midfielders etc. Farke doesn't use it as an excuse for sh*t results but as a factor as to why we aren't doing even better. It is the difference between bullsh*t and reality. The Garry Monk season is probably a better example of a team outperforming xg. We had a run of matches where Wood was prolific and Green, in goal for us, was having some absolute blinders. We were winning matches we didn't, statswise, deserve to win. The bubble though was bound to burst at some point and it did and we missed out on the play-offs. So for me the metric is not specificall xg but should we have scored more goals than we did today using my own eyes? The answer is yes. Should we have scored more last season, using my own eyes, and yes we should. Should we have done better under Marsch based on the performances I watched? No.

C) I am not a fan of calling out players. I didn't see it as Farke throwing them under the bus in the same way Hecky did. It seemed to me that he was actually trying to give a message to players rather than criticising - a bit like the subtle message when he talked about actions being louder than words in regards to Wober. If you feel like that was Farke apportioning al the blame onto Aaronsen and Piroe then there is nothing I can do about that. I certainly didn't see it that way and feel he has often used his press conferences to mention players (i.e. Georgi showboating) but I have never felt he was throwing anyone under the bus.

[Cjay]

A) I would say 80% of what Farke has done here has been excellent. I certainly feel we are in a far better state than we were when he took over. If we were getting battered every week, or even winning but getting battered stats wise then I would be concerned. We aren't. Could we be doing better? Perhaps a little. Could we be doing worse? Yes a whole lot worse. We have seen many relegated teams that were in better shape than us do nothing or even flirt with relegation to League 1. Farke galvanised the club and got us to a points total that would normally win promotion - sadly you think that is worth criticising and that he isn't allowed to ever mention that he got 90 points.

B) Like I already said the Marsch hyperbole in regard to XG was undermined by what happened on the pitch. With our performances under Farke I am struggling to recall a game that we won that we didn't deserve to win and there were not many matches where the oppositon had more shots or a result where the xg was in the opposition's favour. That is the difference. Same as under Bielsa I believe in the process and that if you regularly have 4 or 5 times as many shots as the oppsoiton you should win most matches. For me it is history repeating itself as the Bielsa team rarely won matches as comfortably as they should. So the same problem has arisen. Even today we could and should have been a couple of goals in front and we then probabyl blow Portsmouth away. If we match the xg today then no one is talking about whether substittuions were wrong or right or about two defensive midfielders etc. Farke doesn't use it as an excuse for sh*t results but as a factor as to why we aren't doing even better. It is the difference between bullsh*t and reality. The Garry Monk season is probably a better example of a team outperforming xg. We had a run of matches where Wood was prolific and Green, in goal for us, was having some absolute blinders. We were winning matches we didn't, statswise, deserve to win. The bubble though was bound to burst at some point and it did and we missed out on the play-offs. So for me the metric is not specificall xg but should we have scored more goals than we did today using my own eyes? The answer is yes. Should we have scored more last season, using my own eyes, and yes we should. Should we have done better under Marsch based on the performances I watched? No.

C) I am not a fan of calling out players. I didn't see it as Farke throwing them under the bus in the same way Hecky did. It seemed to me that he was actually trying to give a message to players rather than criticising - a bit like the subtle message when he talked about actions being louder than words in regards to Wober. If you feel like that was Farke apportioning al the blame onto Aaronsen and Piroe then there is nothing I can do about that. I certainly didn't see it that way and feel he has often used his press conferences to mention players (i.e. Georgi showboating) but I have never felt he was throwing anyone under the bus.

A) It wasn't good enough though was it? Can we agree that the talk of a multi year project was false now? He was actually tasked with promotion? And that he is atleast partially responsible for that. Maybe I don't give him enough credit, but i dont think you are as critical as you could be either and maybe we both have our own CHILDISH tendencies. I think galvanised" is an overstated impact myself, Bielsa galvanised the club, i dont think Farke deserves that level of praise i just dont. Was it ideal and easy what DF walked into? Absolutely not, did he manage it OK mostly? Yeah ok. Was it a disaster? No. You could make the case Blunts have had as difficult a summer as we had last year, lost 10,11 first team players, in the middle of seemingly endless takeover drama with no end in sight (oir takeover drama had atleast ended well before season and a poonts deduction. Will he have galvanised them if they get promoted or jusr done his job under less than ideal circumstances? And tbh no I didn't like him talking about 90 points in the context he did the other day. He could have said "we managed 90 points we feel confident we can better it" he went the opposite way and I don't like talking down expectations from any manager.

B) Farke uses xG the same as any manager does, as a defence. No manager wins and mentions xG, they only ever mention it when they don't get the result, be that Marsch or Bielsa or Farke himself. So whether it's relevant or not (and I have defended xG on here many times as a worthwhile performance analysis) it is always used for the same thing by managers, deflecting. They may have a point, they may not, but they all use it for the same thing. Farke has a point today, he may have had a point last season (I haven't checked but I think Southampton and Leicester were top 2 anyway). But as you yourself know it can be manipulated, if we go behind 1-0 from a really good chance of say 0.6, then the opposition sit back for 60+minutes and we pepper the goal with 20 long range hit and hopes then our xG just on accumulation will be higher than the opposition but in reality we created no proper chances. Context is important as with anything but the reason for bringing it up as with any manager is the same.

C) I don't see how saying X should have done this or that as he did then or at times last season is any different to what Hecky did tbh. He could have said "I felt changing this would have done this this and this and unfortunately it didn't and we will look at why". He didn't need to mention any players making mistakes or whatever. Particularly Aaronson who he knows has a fragile relationship with the fans as it is.

[The Subhuman]

West Brom favourites next week?

[fatherofnight]

Portsmouth were poor and awful, a below average team who will be lucky to not be in the bottom three come seasons end. I just hope we don't finish anywhere near them.
But we were awful too after the first 15 mins, it was as if we've learnt nothing from last season, sitting back after going in front, letting teams gain the momentum and us hoping to hit them on the break, when we are incapable of breaking with any speed whatsoever, even with 2 flying wingers who should be scaring teams to death.
I know it's the first match but it's painful watching us do the same things as last season when we know it doesn't work.
Hey! hopefully I'm wrong and Portsmouth are indeed a very good team, and we did well to get a point.
Think I've talked myself around, "it'll all come out in the wash Mother" and so on.....

[Irish Ian]

Portsmouth were poor and awful, a below average team who will be lucky to not be in the bottom three come seasons end. I just hope we don't finish anywhere near them.
But we were awful too after the first 15 mins, it was as if we've learnt nothing from last season, sitting back after going in front, letting teams gain the momentum and us hoping to hit them on the break, when we are incapable of breaking with any speed whatsoever, even with 2 flying wingers who should be scaring teams to death.
I know it's the first match but it's painful watching us do the same things as last season when we know it doesn't work.
Hey! hopefully I'm wrong and Portsmouth are indeed a very good team, and we did well to get a point.
Think I've talked myself around, "it'll all come out in the wash Mother" and so on.....

It did bag us 90 points last season. So saying it doesn't work is perhaps a bit much, but I get your frustration..

As for being less adventurous, you do need to manage energy levels and it's a good time get them to chase the ball.

Portsmouth were overawed early in the game, a bit like we were at Anfield in our return to the PL. They play a decent style of football and will rattle a few thus season.

But our concentration at the back needs sharpening up.

[BlackHillsPaul]

just got done watching the match. Was not able to watch it live today. Here are my thoughts.

We dominated possession, shots, shots on goal, and corner kicks.

We hit the crossbar 3 times in the first 15 min or so.

We scored first on a well taken PK by our Big Sexy Pirate. The PK was made possible by a very good run by Dan James into the box where he was fouled from behind.

We then gave up a very soft goal that should have been saved by Meslier. I think it was Rodon that made a poor clearance to set that up.

Another poor Rodon clearance led to a very well taken goal. I'll give them credit for that one.

Just after halftime Wilie Gnonto with a very nice goal. That one was all him.

At about the 71st min Farke made 3 subs. Aaronson and Piroe come on for the 2 wingers. Piroe takes the center mid role with Georginio moving to the RW. Rothwell also came on for Gruev. I don't necessarily have a problem with the changes as it's early in the season and fitness could still be an issue. But our shape completely changed. It became very narrow with Aaronson and Georginio coming inside. All of the width was coming from the fullbacks. It looked way too much like Jesse Marsch football for me.

Bamford comes on around the 80th minute for some reason. I would not have made that change as Joseph looked like he had plenty left in the tank. As it turned out Bamford had zero impact on the match.

They get a penalty in the 92nd minute. And I think it was a very questionable call. The contact between the players started well outside the box. And the grabbing continued into the box. A foul on Bogle ok. But the Referee should have awarded a free kick just outside the box.

Brenden Aaronson scores a great goal to tie it up just a couple minutes later. And every Leeds fan would have been happy for him. But....

Then Aaronson misses a clear and easy chance. He was one on one with the keeper from roughly the spot. And now he's right back on the shite list...

I'm going to cut Aaronson some slack on that one. After all, we hit the crossbar 3 times in the first half so....

Bottom line is we had plenty of chances and scored plenty of goals to win. This loss is down to poor defending, mostly by Joe Rodon, and a questionable PK decision. I expect things will get better.

[LoinerBoy]

I thought bringing on Bamford was pointless though in hindsight. He looked miles off the pace. But the alternative is to let our biggest earner get splinters.

Better he gets splinters than bringing him on and taking off someone who can play football.

[Kennyb41]

just got done watching the match. Was not able to watch it live today. Here are my thoughts.

We dominated possession, shots, shots on goal, and corner kicks.

We hit the crossbar 3 times in the first 15 min or so.

We scored first on a well taken PK by our Big Sexy Pirate. The PK was made possible by a very good run by Dan James into the box where he was fouled from behind.

We then gave up a very soft goal that should have been saved by Meslier. I think it was Rodon that made a poor clearance to set that up.

Another poor Rodon clearance led to a very well taken goal. I'll give them credit for that one.

Just after halftime Wilie Gnonto with a very nice goal. That one was all him.

At about the 71st min Farke made 3 subs. Aaronson and Piroe come on for the 2 wingers. Piroe takes the center mid role with Georginio moving to the RW. Rothwell also came on for Gruev. I don't necessarily have a problem with the changes as it's early in the season and fitness could still be an issue. But our shape completely changed. It became very narrow with Aaronson and Georginio coming inside. All of the width was coming from the fullbacks. It looked way too much like Jesse Marsch football for me.

Bamford comes on around the 80th minute for some reason. I would not have made that change as Joseph looked like he had plenty left in the tank. As it turned out Bamford had zero impact on the match.

They get a penalty in the 92nd minute. And I think it was a very questionable call. The contact between the players started well outside the box. And the grabbing continued into the box. A foul on Bogle ok. But the Referee should have awarded a free kick just outside the box.

Brenden Aaronson scores a great goal to tie it up just a couple minutes later. And every Leeds fan would have been happy for him. But....

Then Aaronson misses a clear and easy chance. He was one on one with the keeper from roughly the spot. And now he's right back on the shite list...

I'm going to cut Aaronson some slack on that one. After all, we hit the crossbar 3 times in the first half so....

Bottom line is we had plenty of chances and scored plenty of goals to win. This loss is down to poor defending, mostly by Joe Rodon, and a questionable PK decision. I expect things will get better.

Absolutely spot on Paul Jeez i wish Aaronson had found the back of the net, don't panic, once he settles, he's gonna star this season, Willy ain't all that as a 'team' player, Brendan has a helluva lot more to his game, not to mention - Intelligence.

Jeez i've just been reading some garbled fcking Gobshite on Twitter (there's some shite on there i'll tell thi)
Woman reckons DF played 2 DM's ....2 DM's that couldn't have been more further apart if they were the USA womens 400m relay team from the rest
Gruev up there all over the top, taking corners, joining in attack, taking free kicks, whilst Amps dropped in at CH, Roden went right, Pascal left, forming a 3 man defence for the most part, leaving Firpo attacking and Bogle flanking and Rutter dropping deep to collect opening gaps.

DJ wasn't at the races today, total off game, Willy scored a goal, end of, Joseph kept pretty quiet.
Brendans was an excellent sub.
Piroe did fck all as per.
PB did fck all but fall down, he ain't an impact sub or any sort of sub and should now be 'put down', although he would've been on the end of some that Joseph wasn't, and was unlucky with a glancing header.

DF played a blinder, pity the players didn't.

ttfn.

[Kennyb41]

A) I would say 80% of what Farke has done here has been excellent. I certainly feel we are in a far better state than we were when he took over. If we were getting battered every week, or even winning but getting battered stats wise then I would be concerned. We aren't. Could we be doing better? Perhaps a little. Could we be doing worse? Yes a whole lot worse. We have seen many relegated teams that were in better shape than us do nothing or even flirt with relegation to League 1. Farke galvanised the club and got us to a points total that would normally win promotion - sadly you think that is worth criticising and that he isn't allowed to ever mention that he got 90 points.

B) Like I already said the Marsch hyperbole in regard to XG was undermined by what happened on the pitch. With our performances under Farke I am struggling to recall a game that we won that we didn't deserve to win and there were not many matches where the oppositon had more shots or a result where the xg was in the opposition's favour. That is the difference. Same as under Bielsa I believe in the process and that if you regularly have 4 or 5 times as many shots as the oppsoiton you should win most matches. For me it is history repeating itself as the Bielsa team rarely won matches as comfortably as they should. So the same problem has arisen. Even today we could and should have been a couple of goals in front and we then probabyl blow Portsmouth away. If we match the xg today then no one is talking about whether substittuions were wrong or right or about two defensive midfielders etc. Farke doesn't use it as an excuse for sh*t results but as a factor as to why we aren't doing even better. It is the difference between bullsh*t and reality. The Garry Monk season is probably a better example of a team outperforming xg. We had a run of matches where Wood was prolific and Green, in goal for us, was having some absolute blinders. We were winning matches we didn't, statswise, deserve to win. The bubble though was bound to burst at some point and it did and we missed out on the play-offs. So for me the metric is not specificall xg but should we have scored more goals than we did today using my own eyes? The answer is yes. Should we have scored more last season, using my own eyes, and yes we should. Should we have done better under Marsch based on the performances I watched? No.

C) I am not a fan of calling out players. I didn't see it as Farke throwing them under the bus in the same way Hecky did. It seemed to me that he was actually trying to give a message to players rather than criticising - a bit like the subtle message when he talked about actions being louder than words in regards to Wober. If you feel like that was Farke apportioning al the blame onto Aaronsen and Piroe then there is nothing I can do about that. I certainly didn't see it that way and feel he has often used his press conferences to mention players (i.e. Georgi showboating) but I have never felt he was throwing anyone under the bus.

Good to see you're no mug anorl.

There's a lot of 'mugs' about falling for 'fake' chat and 'fake' news.

I too - don't suffer fools gladly.

ttfn

bbs.....(got some well serious 'holidaying' to do.

[Barlow Boy]

West Brom favourites next week?

Not according to the bookies, Leeds almost even money.

[WhiteRose]

It was the first game of the season so wouldn’t get carried away too much with critique. It’s almost a one off game, promoted team and fans wanting to make themselves seen and heard, lots of adrenaline coursing through the veins etc it’s bound to lead to some errors here and there.

My main problem is the profligacy in front of goal, it’s an issue that just won’t go away, hit the bar 3 times in the opening 5 mins and go on to have 22 shots whilst Portsmouth have just 5. I’d expected Joseph to be the clinical finisher we needed but even he was blazing them over the bar from 6 yards out.

The result has put us in a tricky position already with the prospect of WBA away next week, we are good enough to be the better team in every game we play this year but if we can’t finish chances it will count for nothing.