Cardiff City v Leeds Utd Match Thread

[danhirons]

if only we didn't constantly over exaggerate LUFC young talent...


heck it got us an insane amount for archie

joseph is where gelhardt was 2 years ago..

[BlackHillsPaul]

I was not able to watch the match live today. But I just watched a 10 min highlights package and checked the stats. And It just seems like an awful lot of doom and gloom around here for a road win and three points!!

Could we have scored more goals? Probably, given that we missed a penalty. But we scored two fantastic goals. The first from our new man Ramazani. Not bad for a squad still trying to figure some things out and playing against a side completely committed to bunkering.

We are 2 points better than our record after 6 matches last year. And we have scored the same number of goals.

If we win the next match we will be back on 2 points per game. And we've not even got on a run yet.

So my advice to all is to chill out a bit!! There will plenty of opportunity for doom and gloom once we are promoted.

[1964white]

Yeah in the situation he is perfect for bringing on when we are leading and the opposition have to commit men forward. Probably less effective coming on when we are chasing a game and the opposition are packing their box tighter than Jaydog's extra samll budgie smugglers.

Correct!

In both the Hull & Cardiff games, Piroe had plenty of space to operate in, and didn't he take his opportunities to score magnificently.

When Piroe plays in congested areas, he is far less effective.

It's a crazy situation, as Piroe is far more clinical than Joseph, but it seems he can't play the Mateo/Bamford role.

[1964white]

Piroe needs more minutes than he is currently getting, that is for certain. The problem with him starting is that he does not have Joseph’s energy for the press, which is a big part of Farke’s tactics.

We certainly are a better pressing team this season than last.

We are, we need to be strong in the pressing department.

[Irish Ian]

Don't get me started on the Bamford celebration after months out from injury. (enter faaip). Bamford was a pratt and has never been the same player since. Should have been fined after that celebration, after all the medical teams time and input was just casually swept away by a selfish Bamford

Remember too the Elland Road playing surface was a minefield for players losing their footing at the time. I recall Struijk going over on the exact same place on the touchline where Bamford hurt himself.

Just bad timing in my opinion.

[Irish Ian]

Correct!

In both the Hull & Cardiff games, Piroe had plenty of space to operate in, and didn't he take his opportunities to score magnificently.

When Piroe plays in congested areas, he is far less effective.

It's a crazy situation, as Piroe is far more clinical than Joseph, but it seems he can't play the Mateo/Bamford role.

I think that would be true of most players Leon.

Piroe probably our best finisher, Joseph is imo a more intelligent footballer. Bamford has a good footballing brain too.

We will need all three once this very difficult series of games cones upon us after the next break.

[1964white]

Would rather nor think about those

But Swansea under Russell Martin were a possession based team as well (averaged over 60% both seasons).

So again it must be possible for Piroe to play it.

And where did Swansea finish in the two seasons Piroe was at Swansea?

10th & 15th.

[1964white]

Did you watch the game?

Obviously not!

[1964white]

I was not able to watch the match live today. But I just watched a 10 min highlights package and checked the stats. And It just seems like an awful lot of doom and gloom around here for a road win and three points!!

Could we have scored more goals? Probably, given that we missed a penalty. But we scored two fantastic goals. The first from our new man Ramazani. Not bad for a squad still trying to figure some things out and playing against a side completely committed to bunkering.

We are 2 points better than our record after 6 matches last year. And we have scored the same number of goals.

If we win the next match we will be back on 2 points per game. And we've not even got on a run yet.

So my advice to all is to chill out a bit!! There will plenty of opportunity for doom and gloom once we are promoted.

Watch the whole 90 minutes, Paul.

I agree with all your thoughts, though.

We are yawning our way towards the Premier League.

[1964white]

I think that would be true of most players Leon.

Piroe probably our best finisher, Joseph is imo a more intelligent footballer. Bamford has a good footballing brain too.

We will need all three once this very difficult series of games cones upon us after the next break.

We do need all three, they all have different qualities, Ian. If only they were rolled into one like a Tony Yeboah.

Yesterday, we were playing tippy-tappy football around the edge of their box, which wouldn't have suited Piroe. Our goals & penalty came from when we had space with Ramazani, Bogle & Piroe benefiting from such luxury.

[Jammy 07]

Correct!

In both the Hull & Cardiff games, Piroe had plenty of space to operate in, and didn't he take his opportunities to score magnificently.

When Piroe plays in congested areas, he is far less effective.

It's a crazy situation, as Piroe is far more clinical thavern Joseph, but it seems he can't play the Mateo/Bamford role.

Anyone who thinks we should be replacing Joseph up front with Piroe needs to get themselves to watch a game live and then they'll realise it would be a crazy decision.

Piroe had done well coming on late in games against opposition attempting to get players forward and force a late equaliser. Both his finished were excellent but in both cases the defence had gone walkabout and left him completely unmarked and through on goal. Whereas against Burnley when there was little space he was totally ineffective. Ramazani on the other hand looked dangerous due to his speed and trickery and caused the Burnley backline constant problems showing he should have come on way earlier.

This is where a lot of the criticism of Farke is justified as he killed us against Burnley when he brought Piroe and Rothwell on. Clearly he's bringing players on because they are next in line rather than analysing exactly what's requires at any particular point during a game. For example we never see him make HT substitutions to alter the direction of the match and cause the opposiiton to rethink immediately after their HT team talk.

[The Subhuman]

I think Joseph has been a revelation so far, three assists, best movement and press by a Leeds forward in years, intelligent movement too, good pace, good technique. The goals will come... If Piroe starts he starts alongside Joseph, not in an attacking mid role. Aaronson is the likely one to suffer but he has been one of our top players through 6...

Again drop Gruev and play Aaronson at 8 and that would allow us to play Piroe as the second striker.


-----------------------------------Meslier------------------------------

------------------Rodon----------------------------Struijk-------------

Bogle---------------------------Ampadu-------------------------Firpo

-----------Gnonto------------Aaronson-----------Solomon---------

-----------------------Piroe------------------Joseph----------------------

[Jammy 07]

I think Joseph has been a revelation so far, three assists, best movement and press by a Leeds forward in years, intelligent movement, good pace, good technique... If Piroe starts he starts alongside Joseph, not in an attacking mid role. Aaronson is the likely one to suffer but he has been one of our top players through 6...

Again drop Gruev and play Aaronson at 8 and that would allow us to play Piroe as the second striker.


-----------------------------------Meslier------------------------------

------------------Rodon----------------------------Struijk-------------

Bogle---------------------------Ampadu-------------------------Firpo

-----------Gnonto------------Aaronson-----------Solomon---------

-----------------------Piroe------------------Joseph----------------------

Think a lot of fans want to see us experiment with playing just the one holding midfielder which would allow one of Dan James, Piroe or Solomon to come into yesterdays starting eleven.

Aaronson could be the special player who has the energy and skillset to play the role required to allow that to happen, but I feel we would need to stick with it throught some difficult moments, or concessions of goals, before it would gel perfectly.

Let's be honest though Farke could have gone to something like that whilst losing against Burnley and he chose another path so unlikely to happen any time soon.

[1964white]

Anyone who thinks we should be replacing Joseph up front with Piroe needs to get themselves to watch a game live and then they'll realise it would be a crazy decision.

Piroe had done well coming on late in games against opposition attempting to get players forward and force a late equaliser. Both his finished were excellent but in both cases the defence had gone walkabout and left him completely unmarked and through on goal. Whereas against Burnley when there was little space he was totally ineffective. Ramazani on the other hand looked dangerous due to his speed and trickery and caused the Burnley backline constant problems showing he should have come on way earlier.

This is where a lot of the criticism of Farke is justified as he killed us against Burnley when he brought Piroe and Rothwell on. Clearly he's bringing players on because they are next in line rather than analysing exactly what's requires at any particular point during a game. For example we never see him make HT substitutions to alter the direction of the match and cause the opposiiton to rethink immediately after their HT team talk.

Indeed, the substitutions killed us vs Burnley. We ended up with three of our regular defensive unit of Ampadu, Rodon & Firpo not on the pitch, which contributed to a disjointed look about our play.

We shone yesterday, when we made space for ourselves, by constantly playing through the middle it was predictable & easier for the Cardiff defenders to cope with in congested areas.

[The Subhuman]

Think a lot of fans want to see us experiment with playing just the one holding midfielder which would allow one of Dan James, Piroe or Solomon to come into yesterdays starting eleven.

Aaronson could be the special player who has the energy and skillset to play the role required to allow that to happen, but I feel we would need to stick with it through some difficult moments, or concessions of goals, before it would gel perfectly.

Let's be honest though Farke could have gone to something like that whilst losing against Burnley and he chose another path so unlikely to happen any time soon.

Without realising it I've drawn up the old W formation...


-----------------------------------Sprake------------------------------

---------------------Hunter----------------Charlton-------------

Reaney-----------------------Bremner-------------------------Cooper

--------Lorimer----------------Giles------------------Gray--------

-----------------------Clarke------------------Jones----------------------

[Orange Box]

I was not able to watch the match live today. But I just watched a 10 min highlights package and checked the stats. And It just seems like an awful lot of doom and gloom around here for a road win and three points!!

Could we have scored more goals? Probably, given that we missed a penalty. But we scored two fantastic goals. The first from our new man Ramazani. Not bad for a squad still trying to figure some things out and playing against a side completely committed to bunkering.

We are 2 points better than our record after 6 matches last year. And we have scored the same number of goals.

If we win the next match we will be back on 2 points per game. And we've not even got on a run yet.

So my advice to all is to chill out a bit!! There will plenty of opportunity for doom and gloom once we are promoted.

I don’t want to appear unnecessarily antagonistic, Paul, but most of the posters watched 95 more minutes than you. I suggest you might want to do the same, then tell us what you think?

[WhiteRose]

Last season we got next to no goals from central midfield and this season at the moment is looking like going the same way - balls are dropping to Gruev and Ampadu but neither is making the most of it in terms of shots or final passes and maybe that’s ok as it’s not their primary purpose but we need a tanaka or rothwell there, especially against teams like Cardiff - the double holding midfielder system is just unnecessary especially vs teams like cardiff

[weasel]

Anyone who thinks we should be replacing Joseph up front with Piroe needs to get themselves to watch a game live and then they'll realise it would be a crazy decision.

Piroe had done well coming on late in games against opposition attempting to get players forward and force a late equaliser. Both his finished were excellent but in both cases the defence had gone walkabout and left him completely unmarked and through on goal. Whereas against Burnley when there was little space he was totally ineffective. Ramazani on the other hand looked dangerous due to his speed and trickery and caused the Burnley backline constant problems showing he should have come on way earlier.

This is where a lot of the criticism of Farke is justified as he killed us against Burnley when he brought Piroe and Rothwell on. Clearly he's bringing players on because they are next in line rather than analysing exactly what's requires at any particular point during a game. For example we never see him make HT substitutions to alter the direction of the match and cause the opposiiton to rethink immediately after their HT team talk.

The trouble is that if Joseph continues to miss chances then regardless of the rest of his game it simply isn't enough to justify him starting every game. 1 goal in 6 matches equates to 7 or 8 in a season. Bamford's finishing was poor in our promotion season but I think he got 17 goals which was probably just about enough to justify his place given what else he brought.

Would I expect Piroe to score 20+ if playing every match, I definitely would whether he played as a 9 or a 10. I could see him scoring 30 if he had a good season. So you lose a lot of the huff and puff but get more goals, do you get more goals a s team, do you control the game as well. That is all for Farke to weigh up but if Joseph keeps missing and Piroe keeps scoring then it will have to change.

You mention the Burnley game with Piroe being ineffective but the Joseph miss was the big sliding doors type moment in that match.

I have no problem Farke bringing Piroe and Rothwell on v Burnley. We were chasing a goal and both of them know where the goal is. It was hardly like we were carving them open at that point so simply having two good finishers on the pitch might have worked if a half chance, out of nothing, fell their way.

As for the subs it is a tricky one. As a manager I wouldn't often make changes at half time. You are wanting to see how the team reacts to a half time talk, changes of tactics etc. You also want fresh legs to be more effective so someone coming on at half time is coming on against a player that heas just been able to rest for 15 minutes whereas coming on 15 to 20 minutes into the second half you have fresh legs against a tiring opposition player..

You also have the situation where we may be on top, have control of the game but not looking threatening. Bringing a Piroe on adds threat but maybe lessesn our ability to keep control of the match, same with Rothwell. Yesterday was a tricky match in which to make changes and when to make them. We were so much in control that the last thing we wanted to do was lose control and invite them into the match. Equally going too gung ho to kill them off risks us being hit on the counter. As it was we controlled the match and should have put the match to bed a lot earlier than we did despite not releasing the handbrake.

As it is though it was a controlled performance and that is what we needed. We saw under Bielsa and Farke last season that there were lots of games where we were comfortably the better team but couldn't put the game to bed so had to keep plugging away for the full match. Given the difference in style it is hardly like we could say that one style worked better than the other in terms of killing a match off. Plenty more wins like this is what we need. We need to be a juggernaut giving teams little sniff against us and getting win after win and this is the way to do it. We have seen other teams in the past keep doing it and the only difference is that we didn't watch their games and see how they played. Take Leicester last season and loads of their fans were moaning about their manager and how they played but they were winning match after match. Style doesn't win you promotion, results do. We controlled the match and took a usually hostile crowd completely out of the equation. We gave their fans nothing to get excited about, we gave their fans no chance to lift their side and inspire them like in the cup tie against O'Leary's side. We were professional but not clinical.

[Jaydog]

Ah got it.
Full of pricks.

[Victor_OTT_17]

I was not able to watch the match live today. But I just watched a 10 min highlights package and checked the stats. And It just seems like an awful lot of doom and gloom around here for a road win and three points!!

Could we have scored more goals? Probably, given that we missed a penalty. But we scored two fantastic goals. The first from our new man Ramazani. Not bad for a squad still trying to figure some things out and playing against a side completely committed to bunkering.

We are 2 points better than our record after 6 matches last year. And we have scored the same number of goals.

If we win the next match we will be back on 2 points per game. And we've not even got on a run yet.

So my advice to all is to chill out a bit!! There will plenty of opportunity for doom and gloom once we are promoted.

Seriously buddy, you need to watch the whole 90 minutes and you will get why we are unhappy about the way we played...