Official TOMA (Take Over My Arse) thread

markolufc · Post by **markolufc** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:34 pm

Bakerjamessteven wrote:well Baker Boy thinks.....
If all absent LUFC fans stopped feeling sorry for them selfs and got there arse down to ER and supported our team, it will make our club stronger and give our club more cash to splash out on players. KB won't do it by him self.
So I Baker Boy call on all LUFC fans to get behind our club and get our arse to ER and yes I also didn't go to as many games has I normal do. But next season I have the faith and I have believe. Because I baker boy am a LUFC fan. Long live our wonderful beautiful club. MOT keep the faith and keep believing because we are Leeds. :-) MOT

The fans walked out in the first place for a reason. You can't just blame all this on the fans. They are not going to go back unless they are given some incentive to do so. Like I said, they've decided other things in their lives are more important than funding a building project. It's not "feeling sorry for themselves" it's just common sense.

markolufc · Post by **markolufc** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:40 pm

Swell Shark wrote:
And you dont think the "devil" was having to deal with the Ridsdale legacy per chance?
I for one am not a fan of Bates, as Ive previously stated. I dont like the fella one bit, I agree he is a schyster & a cheat, but he is getting this club on an even keel, and making us a more attractive proposition to sell. Why do you think he has mortgaged future season ticket sales on doing all the things you said? possibly in the hope that someone comes along and buys before he has to worry about it? At least he's not spending £100 million we havent got? do you reckon people would be happy about that a la Ridsdale? YOU probably would be, because we'd have all these great threads about sh!te players coming in for well over the odds again...

Better the devil you know was aimed at us getting a Ridsdale type character in, who puts us to the point of folding again. This is exactly why i said in my post its great people having their opinions (Educated or not) p!ssed on from a great height...

And you don't think he's just taking advantage of a club that was in a weak situation? He made his money taking advantage of insolvent businesses. How can you not put 2 and 2 together?

bates is sending us bust just like Ridsdale was, the only difference is bates is doing it by spending money on buildings instead of spending money giving us the best football we can get.

He IS spending money we haven't got. If we were in the Premier League he'd be spending a lot MORE money we haven't got, but it wouldn't be on the team. He did the exact same thing at Chelsea and it took a billionaire to sort out the horrific mess he made. He spent £40 million of someone elses money on a building project that is COLLECTING DUST. Oh no wait I lie, it's being used as an office for one of his horrible cronies.

Bakerjamessteven · Post by **Bakerjamessteven** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:09 pm

markolufc wrote:
The fans walked out in the first place for a reason. You can't just blame all this on the fans. They are not going to go back unless they are given some incentive to do so. Like I said, they've decided other things in their lives are more important than funding a building project. It's not "feeling sorry for themselves" it's just common sense.

one of the main reasons I love going to watch LUFC isn't just the football. I love the hole day. I like to get there early and buy my programme have read with a few pints then get some fish & chips. I just love the hole day out.
If some LUFC fans have such a bee in there bonnet why don't they stop moaning and piss off and find another club to support????
If LUFC fans want success. There need to follow one of the top 4, witch LUFC are not. And probably won't be for a very long time.
It's whats called a glory supporter. There's a few teams in red & blue

MeeTa · Post by **MeeTa** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:18 pm

Bakerjamessteven wrote: one of the main reasons I love going to watch LUFC isn't just the football. I love the hole day. I like to get there early and buy my programme have read with a few pints then get some fish & chips. I just love the hole day out.
If some LUFC fans have such a bee in there bonnet why don't they stop moaning and piss off and find another club to support????
If LUFC fans want success. There need to follow one of the top 4, witch LUFC are not. And probably won't be for a very long time.
It's whats called a glory supporter. There's a few teams in red & blue

The few times ive traveled over the pond to watch Leeds the game hasnt been my main priority tbh, the atmosphere before, during and after the game, havin a few beers in local pubs etc etc has been the things ive looked most forward to. As you say the whole day is brilliant

markolufc · Post by **markolufc** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Bakerjamessteven wrote: one of the main reasons I love going to watch LUFC isn't just the football. I love the hole day. I like to get there early and buy my programme have read with a few pints then get some fish & chips. I just love the hole day out.
If some LUFC fans have such a bee in there bonnet why don't they stop moaning and piss off and find another club to support????
If LUFC fans want success. There need to follow one of the top 4, witch LUFC are not. And probably won't be for a very long time.
It's whats called a glory supporter. There's a few teams in red & blue

The problem is labelling these fans as glory supporters when they don't necessarily expect success, just some desire to at least TRY. Sick of excuses for why nothing has happened. They're not going to follow another club and they are entirely right for turning their back on the club until they feel they are getting their desires met.

I just wish certain people on here and elsewhere would stop putting this idea that continuing to go to games despite this crap, despite getting shafted by your own club every week is some noble act of loyalty that should be praised above all else and those who don't do this should be ashamed. It's not a noble act of loyalty, it doesn't make you better than other fans, other fans who decide they've had enough of excuses instead of action are not some how lesser fans because they decide their money is better spent elsewhere.

It's offensive to even suggest that. I do not wish to say that fans who continue to go are in some way stupid because everyone sees the situation differently and many haven't had their experience completely ruined by a feeling of being shafted, but some of us HAVE, and you and others have no right to say you're better than those fans because again, they've decided they've had enough of paying for excuses and no action.

Emsley · Post by **Emsley** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:28 pm

We are still feeding the problem by attending?

Drs.Dad · Post by **Drs.Dad** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:39 pm

markolufc wrote:

It's offensive to even suggest that. I do not wish to say that fans who continue to go are in some way stupid because everyone sees the situation differently and many haven't had their experience completely ruined by a feeling of being shafted, but some of us HAVE, and you and others have no right to say you're better than those fans because again, they've decided they've had enough of paying for excuses and no action.

But you appear to have the right to say you are better than us for wanting to go and watch our team, no matter what? Give it a break, Marco......... fans of Leeds are as diverse as any other chunk of people, you have the right to withhold your support, I have the right to attend matches whenever I want to.

Emsley · Post by **Emsley** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:46 pm

Drs.Dad wrote:

But you appear to have the right to say you are better than us for wanting to go and watch our team, no matter what? Give it a break, Marco......... fans of Leeds are as diverse as any other chunk of people, you have the right to withhold your support, I have the right to attend matches whenever I want to.

No you dont, get to the match.
gun in the back?

Bakerjamessteven · Post by **Bakerjamessteven** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:55 pm

MeeTa wrote:
The few times ive traveled over the pond to watch Leeds the game hasnt been my main priority tbh, the atmosphere before, during and after the game, havin a few beers in local pubs etc etc has been the things ive looked most forward to. As you say the whole day is brilliant

Hi MeeTa

I like it

Bakerjamessteven · Post by **Bakerjamessteven** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:05 pm

markolufc wrote:
The problem is labelling these fans as glory supporters when they don't necessarily expect success, just some desire to at least TRY. Sick of excuses for why nothing has happened. They're not going to follow another club and they are entirely right for turning their back on the club until they feel they are getting their desires met.

I just wish certain people on here and elsewhere would stop putting this idea that continuing to go to games despite this crap, despite getting shafted by your own club every week is some noble act of loyalty that should be praised above all else and those who don't do this should be ashamed. It's not a noble act of loyalty, it doesn't make you better than other fans, other fans who decide they've had enough of excuses instead of action are not some how lesser fans because they decide their money is better spent elsewhere.

It's offensive to even suggest that. I do not wish to say that fans who continue to go are in some way stupid because everyone sees the situation differently and many haven't had their experience completely ruined by a feeling of being shafted, but some of us HAVE, and you and others have no right to say you're better than those fans because again, they've decided they've had enough of paying for excuses and no action.

fans who don't attend out of protest are damaging the club, even more than bates. Stop being stubborn Marko and come and support your team. Enjoy the day :-)

Silky · Post by **Silky** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:04 pm

Guildford White wrote: To be fair, silky did say that he didn't know or care about Bates history before Leeds, so by definition he has to dismiss his business history. A bit alarming though that someone training to be a journalist doesn't know or care about research.

I'm studying a degree in Sports Media, not journalism.... and I'm not doing it because i have a passion for writing or because i enjoy digging up dirt on people, I'm doing it to get a job that I'll enjoy, and one that i wont hate getting up in the morning for.... I don't want to turn in to one of these miserable old b@stards with a lifetime of regret.. forever wishing they had done something else...

For the record, i did 4x stories and 1x match report this semester during my various studies and came through with a distinction grade average... my last story, on Man City, got me a high distinction.

Anyway.. back to the point...... the majority of the stuff I'm reading on this thread is just 'fear'... fear of what Ken will do to the club in the long term.. fear that he'll continue to invest in the ground or casinos or whatever else.... well that's the point I'm trying to make, if he has made the decision to leave NOW, then none of that will happen.... nothing that he almost did will go down in the history books, only what he actually achieved...

Saved from bankruptcy*
Dodgy bookkeeping that wrote off massive sums of debt TO THE BENEFIT OF THE CLUB*
Without the 15 point penalty we'd have been promoted as champions in our first season in League One*
Fantastic 7th place finish once back in the Championship*
Now things have got tough, he cant finance the next step, so he's moving on*
Club is essentially debt free*

If he leaves now, none of the horrible things that we have ALL feared for [including myself], will never happen, leaving Leeds United in a fantastic, debt free position, ready to push on...

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:44 am

I really can't believe that you're claiming that bates deserves the credit for the fact that but for the 15 point penalty we would have been champions in our first season in division 1.

Firstly, you are wrong, we would have been second.
Secondly, we were in division 1 (league 1) because he took us down.
Thirdly there would have been no 15 point penalty without bates and his dodgy administration.

Great job he did there!

Still, it needs research to understand that which is more the province of journalism than of media studies.

Silky · Post by **Silky** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:58 am

Guildford White wrote:I really can't believe that you're claiming that bates deserves the credit for the fact that but for the 15 point penalty we would have been champions in our first season in division 1.

Firstly, you are wrong, we would have been second.
Secondly, we were in division 1 (league 1) because he took us down.
Thirdly there would have been no 15 point penalty without bates and his dodgy administration.

Great job he did there!

Still, it needs research to understand that which is more the province of journalism than of media studies.

Sorry, i looked up the 2008/ 09 season when i did my research... got my seasons mixed up.... see, top researcher me

... and of course, why we were relegated is open to debate as far as I'm concerned.... you can blame Bates or you can blame the previous owners for racking up over £100m of debt and accept that administration was a necessary evil.

I was always under the impression that the reason we were docked 15points was because the administration was ongoing leading in to the start of the season and it was the only way the football league would allow us to compete, something to do with 'golden shares' being suspended during admin or something.....

... the administration might have been dodgy, but without the dodgy-ness, we might still have needed to pay that money back... and who was going to pay for that?

Personally, i don't blame him for the administration at all.

I blame him for appointing Dennis Wise, Gary Mac, and now Warnock, and i blame him for selling Max, Howson, failing to re-invest, not giving Bradley Johnson the contract he deserved, and sacking Simon when he did....

I want him gone... but if he goes now, he will go with my best wishes...... if he sticks around, and he refuses to accept that he is too old and not capable of taking us any further, my patience with him will be short lived...

markolufc · Post by **markolufc** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:30 pm

Bakerjamessteven wrote: fans who don't attend out of protest are damaging the club, even more than bates. Stop being stubborn Marko and come and support your team. Enjoy the day :-)

Yes i'll just force myself to pretend I'm not getting shafted and go out of my way to find money I don't have to get down there because me not going because I've decided my money is better spent elsewhere is just me being "stubborn". This is what I don't like. Don't label me as something I'm not when I've explained clearly what my view is.

I've not said people who decide not to go are better, I am just of the opinion that if you want bates gone you have to try and remove the only thing keeping him here. By all accounts it appears to have worked. It's not "damaging the club more than bates" it's just removing a lot of the money he's wasting and showing up bates for the poor chairman he really is.

It's not some noble act of sacrifice and loyalty to go down to the match every week. You make your decision whether or not the experience is worth the money to you, and you stick with it. So no, while I'm not enjoying it I won't go, and I won't enjoy it while I feel I'm being robbed. The enjoyment for me comes from the atmosphere within the ground and the match itself, unless I'm going to away matches I'm not particularly bothered by the whole pub before and after thing because I generally go with just my dad and I've seen it all before. Tend not to drink on match days as he isn't as he's driving, can't go in the pavilion anymore (which we used to do before matches) because I feel robbed going in there and refuse to pay for such little value for money. Bit of ok quality food (when I can get much, much better from Subway) and listening to Lorimer tow the company line for half an hour isn't my idea of value for money, so what's left to do after that? Buy a programme and go and sit in the ground and watch the build up. But guess what? There is none because nobody can be bothered going because they all feel the same way I do - robbed. They feel they are paying money to support a club that doesn't care. It's not about winning every week, it's about actually CARING about the football enough to put the effort in. When the club doesn't care, why the fudge should I?

I'll take a loss at home from a team giving it everything in front of an amazing, intimidating crowd over a win at home when no one seems to give a toss, every day of the week. And that all starts with the club. The club don't care, it all filters down to the players, the fans, and that's what has caused the atmosphere to vanish from Elland Road.

markolufc · Post by **markolufc** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:38 pm

Silky wrote:
I'm studying a degree in Sports Media, not journalism.... and I'm not doing it because i have a passion for writing or because i enjoy digging up dirt on people, I'm doing it to get a job that I'll enjoy, and one that i wont hate getting up in the morning for.... I don't want to turn in to one of these miserable old b@stards with a lifetime of regret.. forever wishing they had done something else...

For the record, i did 4x stories and 1x match report this semester during my various studies and came through with a distinction grade average... my last story, on Man City, got me a high distinction.

Anyway.. back to the point...... the majority of the stuff I'm reading on this thread is just 'fear'... fear of what Ken will do to the club in the long term.. fear that he'll continue to invest in the ground or casinos or whatever else.... well that's the point I'm trying to make, if he has made the decision to leave NOW, then none of that will happen.... nothing that he almost did will go down in the history books, only what he actually achieved...

Saved from bankruptcy*
Dodgy bookkeeping that wrote off massive sums of debt TO THE BENEFIT OF THE CLUB*
Without the 15 point penalty we'd have been promoted as champions in our first season in League One*
Fantastic 7th place finish once back in the Championship*
Now things have got tough, he cant finance the next step, so he's moving on*
Club is essentially debt free*

If he leaves now, none of the horrible things that we have ALL feared for [including myself], will never happen, leaving Leeds United in a fantastic, debt free position, ready to push on...

Club is not debt free, around £10 million debt with preference shares and ST loan.

I wish I was wrong but you're going to have major egg on your face putting down bates as a great chairman, as when he does sell up the new owners are going to have a horrible financial web to deal with that is set up for one purpose, for bates to get far more money than the club is worth out of the buyers. He did it with Chelsea he'll do it with us, people like that don't change.

The debts aren't even for anything useful, as the ground developments will end up unused, just like Chelsea Village. bates looks good on the surface, but it doesn't take much digging to see that actually, these great wonderful acts that he's done that have benefited the club, they aren't really beneficial for the most part, in fact for the most part they've been either unnecessary or much, much less than what could have been done.

markolufc · Post by **markolufc** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:41 pm

Silky wrote:
Sorry, i looked up the 2008/ 09 season when i did my research... got my seasons mixed up.... see, top researcher me

... and of course, why we were relegated is open to debate as far as I'm concerned.... you can blame Bates or you can blame the previous owners for racking up over £100m of debt and accept that administration was a necessary evil.

I was always under the impression that the reason we were docked 15points was because the administration was ongoing leading in to the start of the season and it was the only way the football league would allow us to compete, something to do with 'golden shares' being suspended during admin or something.....

... the administration might have been dodgy, but without the dodgy-ness, we might still have needed to pay that money back... and who was going to pay for that?

Personally, i don't blame him for the administration at all.

I blame him for appointing Dennis Wise, Gary Mac, and now Warnock, and i blame him for selling Max, Howson, failing to re-invest, not giving Bradley Johnson the contract he deserved, and sacking Simon when he did....

I want him gone... but if he goes now, he will go with my best wishes...... if he sticks around, and he refuses to accept that he is too old and not capable of taking us any further, my patience with him will be short lived...

We were in £38 million debt when he entered administration. Suspiciously, £18 million of that was written off on the condition that bates was allowed to stay in charge. Does that not make you think the £18 million debt was built up purposefully to put the club into administration and write off the rest of the debt, when without doing so we could have continued to pay off the rest of the debt as normal and avoided the shambles that was the -15 points and everything else?

Gino 1959 · Post by **Gino 1959** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:38 pm

markolufc wrote:
I wish I was wrong but you're going to have major egg on your face putting down bates as a great chairman

Maybe not too much egg as the blinkers will provide a degree of protection

weasel · Post by **weasel** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:03 pm

I wouldn't put any of our chairman down as great chairmen. Even Leslie Silver (behind the Wilko times) overspent on buildings (the East Stand) which led to the sale of Batty.

For a while I am sure most fans, myself included, thought Ridsdale was a great chairman and with a bit of luck his huge gamble may have paid off (don't forget when we were finishing 4th it wasn't good enough for champions league footy - if we did what we did then now we probably would have gotten away with it).

What we have with Bates is someone who is the complete opposite of Ridsdale and is not going to gamble at all on the playing squad - giving the manager a budget based on what the club can afford and syphoning off the extra income for buildings etc. He won't go down as a great chairman but he has made our club a much more attractive proposition for real takeovers (not the Redbus, Krasner and other shysters who would just continue to asset strip). He has made his money, likely a damn lot, but if we get taken over by a serious company then I will say thanks. It hasn't been pretty but what Bates does is effective in the business world.

Armleywhite · Post by **Armleywhite** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:11 pm

Difference between silver selling Batty for the sake of the stand is a tad different from no investment in the squad at all, selling major assets and losing fans hand over fist to finance a stand (that really didn't need it) isn't it? Wilko's team had longevity, even if he didn't. It was a squad that could be added to as and when required. Massive difference.

This squad is crap!! But eh, the east stand looks good doesn't it?

markolufc · Post by **markolufc** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:22 pm

Investors in football clubs are looking for football clubs not conference facilities. If you think Leeds United is only an attractive proposition for buyers because of bates developments then you are very naive.