Leeds v Watford: Team/Reports/Ratings

ldsutd · Post by **ldsutd** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:17 pm

I guess no one actually listened to todays game then or was at the game because I cant find any player or team reviews on this thread. As I didn't hear the game can anyone shed any light on how the team played apart from slagging Cellino and Hock off? Thanks.

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:24 pm

Nobody is slagging Hockaday off, he is doing pretty much as you would expect for a coach with his track record. It isn't his fault he was offered the job, I for one don't blame him for getting a decent payday.

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:28 pm

And, in his own words, he is getting more out of these players than anyone else could. Good job we've got him, eh?

leedsmad · Post by **leedsmad** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:34 pm

Man this is getting really depressing , i think we will be battling for relegation already . I don't mean to sound this negative so early on , i was looking at the stats from the game and it appears we only had 4 shots at goal and they were not on target either .
I don't understand Hockaday tactics , we go 2-1 down and replaces Sharp with Cooper ? that is telling me he wants to settle for a 2-1 loss , don't get it .
Cellino is just signing all these players and i don't think he has asked himself the style he wants to achieve cause Hockaday is his sheep and a Manager chooses his players around the structure he wants to play and the style he wants to achieve .
We are a shambles and League 1 is looking like a massive possibility

.
I know wants your stuck on the bottom 3 you seem to just battle that the rest of the year.
Look at the sending offs as well .
I think i need a drink OHHH it's only morning!!!!

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:42 pm

We're lucky here mate, it's late evening. Cheers.

drsdadsotherson · Post by **drsdadsotherson** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:07 pm

I'm not branded or angry at Hockaday, though I am rapidly running towards the 'not good enough' camp there.

I'm angry and frustrated at myself for yet again daring to hold onto a tiny teaspoon of hope only to discover it's really a teaspoon of emotional cyanide.

weasel · Post by **weasel** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:15 am

I am furious. I simply expected us to turn up and win the game, clearly this has not happened. Every game in this division we should win because we are the might Leeds and as we have been brilliant for ages this should carry on.

Sounded to me from the radio commentary that we were at least equal to Watford until the 2nd goal. Of course it is Hockaday's fault that the new highly rated defender signed on a 4 year deal slipped and then in trying to redeem the situation gave away a penalty and got himself sent off making us 2-1 down and a man less. From there on Hockaday was clearly at fault for his decision to bring a defender on instead of playing out the rest of the match with just 1 centreback....

Yes 4-1 defeat sounds bad and is bad but up until the penalty+goal+red card and it sounded like a bit of progress being made, which is all we can realistically hope for in this season of transition. 2 new players straight into the starting line-up today in addition to new players seemingly being dropped into the team every match.

I don't blame Hockaday, it is going to take time, we won't win every match playing great straight away. If slight progress is made then it is good, sometimes we'll even take 1 step forward and two back but we have to keep moving forward. Cooper and Sharp made their debut last week, 2 more made their debut yesterday and no doubt 1 or 2 more will make their debut against Bradford. We have players dropping in with various levels of fitness, no idea if they even speak any language that their team mates do and having had little time for themselves to even acclimatise to being in a different country playing in a league that is probably a lot more physical and quick than they are used to.

I will be glad when the transfer window shuts. Sometimes bringign in so many players can be more harmful than helpful. Instead of Hockaday knowing his preferred 11 he has 20+ players that are all considered first team and with every defeat the temptation is to make changes. We need a settled formation and a settled side for us to get any semblance of settled performances.

ldsutd · Post by **ldsutd** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:45 am

Oh and by the way people moaning regarding taking a forward off. That's usual practice in that situation, it's to try and keep the scores the same and try to get a foot in the game then for the last 10-15 mins bring on a attacking player and try nick a goal back. That's the norm especially when you are the team on the back foot which we definitely was lol.

Gurj · Post by **Gurj** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:52 am

I think it was the choice of which forward he took off that wound fans up.

Considering it was Antelucci's first game, and Sharp has played at this level for years you would have think the latter would have been the one who remained on the pitch when we went to 10 men.

ldsutd · Post by **ldsutd** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:48 am

Gurj wrote:I think it was the choice of which forward he took off that wound fans up.

Considering it was Antelucci's first game, and Sharp has played at this level for years you would have think the latter would have been the one who remained on the pitch when we went to 10 men.

yep fair comment

i have just watched the league show and from what I could see from the short clips it showed, I think we was a little bit unlucky although they say you make your own luck.

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:50 am

No shots on target in the entire game. That isn't unlucky, that is poor football destined for only one result

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:06 am

Good post weasel - I hope we can all have some patience, difficult though it may be at times.
I don't think negatively about the situation, although drowning my sorrows does seem an attractive alternative on occasion. The main reason I'm not down in the dumps is because this year we have a different situation to any we’ve had before. Before anybody runs wisecracks at that comment (oh hell, who cares, run ‘em all you want, let’s have some wordsmith fun

), please look at our state of play a little outside the box.
This year we have an owner who actually cares about us as only a football fanatic can. He might be a loon to some, but he seems honest enough and I think he will see this through as he takes us where he wants us to be. The good thing is our deeply desired destination and his coincide.
His wishes for ownership of ER and ours are the same. At last we are free of debt. Many positives are extant.
The last few starts to a season have not been quite as bad as this one so far but they've quickly slipped to a mediocrity and ended up with us having no hope fairly quickly, or (last year) it's been a reasonable start followed by a shocking mid-season and - no hope!
So, this year we go into a season with an inexperienced (at this level) coach, an egocentric but undoubtedly proud and honourable (say what you like, nobody sticks with Cagliari for the length of time he has for any other reason) owner and there is some confusion as to how all these new players are to be used. Get that – these new players. MC is providing us with almost an embarrassment of new players, which Hock is attempting to utilise in a meaningful way. Yes, there’s some confusion, the right tactics and formation seem light years away, mistakes are made, points thrown away.
The reason I don’t feel negative about anything is because MC is still going to be there, trying to make things right, giving us a roller-coaster of a season whilst things settle and then, the master plan, when we are ready, settled, etc., then we go for promotion. He never said it would be this season. Therefore we really have to take this apparent shambles as a work in progress, which it actually is. He’s not going to walk away before the job’s done – if this doesn’t work then we’ll try that, and so on.
I can’t say what other positive-sounding posters are thinking, but that’s my take on the situation.
We’ve never had this situation before where a man with the means to make things happen wants to make our collective day. I’m sure there has to be a little adverse slope in there somewhere, but when you think of the last 10 years and then look at the distinct possibility that we’re going somewhere other than to the dogs or the league below, the prospect is almost overwhelming. Yes, we could be relegated, but we would be back and better in the end than we are with our whiny, uncomfortable little niche.

Post by **hector** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:12 am

: gp.gif (814 Bytes) Viewed 3557 times

Ryan_LUFC · Post by **Ryan_LUFC** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:47 am

Anyone know what this is referring to? Was he getting stick off fans or was it more thinking what have I done coming here?

weasel · Post by **weasel** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:36 pm

People need to have patience. Leeds have been awful this year calendar wise. Since Christmas time we have been awful and to simply expect us to turn it all around is staggering, no matter who the coach/manager is.

Our opening few matches were always going to be tough, heck is there ever an easy game in the championship. Millwall away is always a tough match and we haven't got much there in recent years. Boro, Brighton and Watford are all teams expected to be in the play-offs, are we?

The knee jerk reaction to 'sack the manager' after every defeat is ridiculous. If he was a big name manager we wouldn't be acting this way. Give him the same chance that they would get. All the stuff about the manager going to be sacked simply undermines his power as any player with a slight grudge can simply not put the effort in and then hope the new manager likes them more.

Yes it may be the case that we stick with Hockaday and lose 10 on the bounce and yes at that point then he would need to go but at least give him the chance to show what he can do. With new faces coming in seemingly every day he probably doesn't know what his best choice team is or even what players can gell together. At the moment it is like getting all the pieces of a jigsaw and throwing them on the floor and then saying the jigsaw is finished.

gessa · Post by **gessa** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:39 pm

Ryan_LUFC wrote:

Anyone know what this is referring to? Was he getting stick off fans or was it more thinking what have I done coming here?

Probably thinking poor sods paying good money to watch this.

Crude · Post by **Crude** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:52 pm

Good post weasel. Seems people have short memories about some of the dross that was presented as football the last few seasons. The red card changed the entire match in favor of Watford. As the saying goes, 'sh*t happens sometimes.'

weasel · Post by **weasel** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:53 pm

You just need to look at the equivalent record under Warnock who came in and within a few weeks had us being battered by Forest 7-3 at home amongst many other defeats. That was a manager with supposedly great man management/motivational skills and years of experience and success in the game. This club will take a lot to turn it around regardless of who was appointed. Whether Hockaday is the right man or not, now that he is here he at least needs to be given a chance without unrealistic expectations.

theleedsmango · Post by **theleedsmango** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:27 pm

weasel wrote:Sounded to me from the radio commentary that we were at least equal to Watford until the 2nd goal. Of course it is Hockaday's fault that the new highly rated defender signed on a 4 year deal slipped and then in trying to redeem the situation gave away a penalty and got himself sent off making us 2-1 down and a man less. From there on Hockaday was clearly at fault for his decision to bring a defender on instead of playing out the rest of the match with just 1 centreback....

Good post Weasel but there is serious flaw with this argument. In this argument, no matter what game it is, the manager would never be at fault. It would be the keeper / defender who failed to save the ball, or the strikers who never scored.

As you rightly put, some of these players barely share the same language with their new team mates and some are just bedding in. Which makes subbing off Sharp instead of Antenucci that more baffling. Sharp, who stole us points in the Middlesborough game was the most likely candidate to score. He has knowledge of this league, he's the most (only) inform striker we have. The manager can't control what happens on the pitch but he can control who is on it, indirect control.

And the other problem, not so much Hockaday's fault, is that this unconventional system is struggling to work. I've said it before, a manager should be able to fit a system in and sign players in for that system. With Cellino and Salerno, there doesn't seem to be any plan with the signings. We need width, we need control. Hockaday has probably never seen Benedicic or Bianchi play until they showed up in the training and he has to find out where to fit them in.

The best example I can give is to hire someone to build a house. Then to go out and buy the materials yourself. The builder shows up and has to then make a house out of this. He has twice as many bricks as he needs, half the amount of doors, he has to reuse the timber that was reclaimed from the previous house etc. It doesn't matter who the builder is, or in this case, who is in that head coaching position. The problem here is the system.

We need a manager who has a bit more experience to be able to stand up to Cellino and say "No, we don't need this guy, we want this guy in this position. I'll win you games but you need to do it this way. Can you get me this guy." Cellino is trigger happy but he won't fire a manager that is winning.

Hockaday just doesn't have the weight behind him to say any of this. He doesn't have the confidence and he is starting off from a difficult position. I've heard many people in the game praise Hockaday, and Steve Clark was the latest, and it's not a negative shot at his ability. Heck, he might be the best person there is out there to fill this pseudo Head Coach role; the problem is that nearly every other club goes with the conventional Manager because it works. Managing Leeds is hard enough without throwing more obstacles in the way.

Gino 1959 · Post by **Gino 1959** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:52 pm

League tables NEVER lie.