Stoke City v Leeds Utd Match Thread

[danhirons]

This whole refs are against us is tiring

[HarryofOz]

This whole refs are against us is tiring

It's common across the board

The refs are biased against every team and in favour of every other team - they must be miracle workers.

[Genghers]

I don't think there is a real need to over analyse the match today. Again boiled down to who scored first and we gifted Stoke the opener. Without that we probably get stronger as the game wears on and force a winner (great that again the lads never gave up and scored in the 95th minute which again highlights the fitness). i think you could probably compare the stats to many games this season and they would probably be similar to many matches where we actually won. Bielsa plays the stats and knows that if we produce 17 shots to the opponents 12 and we have 71% of possession that we would likely win most of those matches - football being football though the biggest stat is always the end scoreline. Bielsa would happily take those stats every match.

For those that are worried by the 1 win in our last 4 league matches well Norwich have won only 1 in their last 5 league matches (they also crashed out of the FA Cup), Sheff U had a run of 1 win in 4 not so long ago, WBA are winless in 3. It is the championship and teams have bad runs, the key is to bounce back quickly which we did under Monk when we always bounced back from defeat with a win until the wheels fell off.

The main concern is that we are gifting the opposition goals and hopefully the new keeper will help. Don't forget how many times Green had great matches and we'd nick the win and a crucial save here or there could be absolutely key - just look at Butland's save today from Ayling's header which would have made it 1-1 and could have turned the match.

Excellent points well made.

To your middle paragraph - I think a lot of fans got carried away with the 7 wins in a row and forgot the league. That sort of run practically never happens in the Championship and it is a division where anybody can beat anybody. Certainly aren't many safe bets.

Hull are in great form, but you can see them trailing off. Swansea did us a big favour last night, and hopefully that Norwich-Sheff game can be a draw (preferably with a few reds chucked in...) and we can put a few past Rotherham to get our tails up before Norwich.

The thing I fear most from that Norwich game is the fans' reaction if we lose... it won't be the end of the promotion chances if we do, but it will probably feel like it on here!

[hector]

We've lost 3 in 4 in the league which is extremely worrying. I genuinely think we will finish play offs at best. Not because of bielsa but our squad is not good enough. The build up play is so slow as well though which at home is very worrying.

BPF - 7 no fault at either goal.
Cooper 5
Jansson 4 (needs to stop getting stupid yellows)
Douglas 6
Ayling 3 (could he give the ball away anymore times?)
Clark (overrated and not ready. Good prospect but needs time. Wasted the ball a lot)
Ali - 5 good finish at the end after wasting the ball the whole game
Forshaw - 7 sprayed the ball well
Klich and Hernandez - 4 poor both very poor
Harrison - adds nothing, sooner he leaves the better
Roofe 5 - can't mark him basically as hardly touched the ball.

Genuinely a really poor performance and 3 in 4 losses (4 in 5 including league game) is so bad

[herefordbornleedsboy]

This whole refs are against us is tiring

I do sit and wonder sometimes whether we as a fanbase are seeing something that isn't there. But the second Pontus yellow just wasn't. Then you look at the Derby game last week... explain to me the lack of red cards for some of the challenges that occurred there. The penalty that was given then rescinded due to an offside call where Alioski was around 2 yards onside. The fact that we have been awarded one penalty in the last 50 or so games. It all stacks up.

[weasel]

I remember back in 1990 when we last got promoted from this division and after looking good for automatic promotion we had a real wobble and went into the last match of the season needing a win to be certain of going up. Gonna be lots of twists and turns and up to the players and the fans to hold their nerve. We got the goal v Derby at a good time which meant they had to come out and attack us and meant our gameplan worked. Against Stoke, despite them being the home team, they were content to sit back and play for a 0-0 draw and hope that because we wanted to win more that we would take a risk and get caught out, or that they could capitalise from a set piece or we'd make a defensive error. They were able to play this way because they are a mid table side with no great hopes of making the play-offs and no real threat of relegation, As such their manager was happy to play for a draw (and so avoid losing 3 matches in a row for the first time in his short managerial career). Hopefully other teams will not be in that situation against us and will actually be trying to win.

[1964white]

This whole refs are against us is tiring

Just to reiterate

Pontus booking issued because he questioned a free-kick given against Klich on the edge of the box that wasn't, Peacock-Farrell made a very good a save

Another free-kick given in a dangerous area after a Stoke player flew in the air like a salmon almost into the Leeds end with no contact whatsoever.

Four yellow cards issued immediately to Leeds players without any leniency that he gave to the Stoke players

Hernandez tripped in the box, if it wasn't a penalty why didn't he book Pablo as he was happy to wave yellow cards like confetti prior to that incident

Pontus falls over after being outrun by Afobe, harsh sending off especially when you compare it to the Harrison incident at Forest a couple of weeks ago

[1964white]

This whole refs are against us is tiring

Yes it is especially as they give us nothing

Obviously a EFL instructive

[1964white]

I do sit and wonder sometimes whether we as a fanbase are seeing something that isn't there. But the second Pontus yellow just wasn't. Then you look at the Derby game last week... explain to me the lack of red cards for some of the challenges that occurred there. The penalty that was given then rescinded due to an offside call where Alioski was around 2 yards onside. The fact that we have been awarded one penalty in the last 50 or so games. It all stacks up.

I don't generally moan about the officials but I'm sorry this season we've had a glut of poor decisions go against us even when we've won games.

[1964white]

Cooper so so lucky again, thats the Liam that i remember

Cooper was poor but he wasn't the only one !

[1964white]

WTF!!! Not a red. Not a yellow. He went down, didn't touch the Stoke guy, Stoke guy carried on running ffs

With you there young lady

Pontus was done for pace lost his footing, no foul committed = yellow card/sending off in the ref's eyes, wouldn't have been the case at the other end

[The Subhuman]

Waccoe saying he put a hand on the ball, but to be honest can't really see how the ref would have seen that from where he was ..and then it would have to be apparent it was deliberate ...

[1964white]

BPF- 6, made some decent saves, not really at fault for any of the goals, although a weak punch was involved in the build up to one of the goals.

Ayling-3 Very poor, constantly putting his teammates under pressure with his lax passing, didnt help Clarke when he should be releasing the ball to him earlier.

Ali- 7. .Decent from Ali again, defended fairly well and got a goal.

Coops-5 Struggled with the pace and power of Afobe and Campbell, some lax passes very nearly cost us and a poor header in the build up for the first.

Jansson-4. .Same as Cooper, couldn't really cope with the Stoke forward line, caught out by a ball over the top, maybe a bit unlucky with the slip but he did slow Afobe down in doing so.

Forshaw- 4. . Unable to impact the game, Stoke allowed him plenty of room but he rarely did anything with it, wasteful long shots to, not good enough like many of his teammates today, Stoke bossed the midfield.

Klich-4 . .Same as Forshaw, to easily bullied by Etebo, Allen and Adam, seems to have lost all confidence in the final 3rd and dreadful for one of Stokes goals.

Hernandez- 5. . Again bossed to easily, couldn't impact the game, came deeper and deeper to try and get involved, looked extremely frustrated by the lack of options at times.

Harrison-4.. saw a lot of the ball, rarely did anything with it, easily dispossed many times, didn't beat his man enough or show any end product.

Clarke-6. Well handled by Stoke, doubled up on and allowed very little space, wasnt helped by Ayling releasing the ball to him to late, did at least manage to put a good cross or two in, not the biggest problem today but Stoke handled him as well as anyone has.

Roofe-4 Couldn't get involved at all, rarely touched the ball which isnt his fault entirely but easily bullied by the Stoke back 3, these type of games arent for Roofe, he is easily handled if not allowed space to move into.

Poor all round really, its games like this where our injuries and depth issues show, very little in terms of options when things arent going well.

Defensively to easily caught out by the pace of the Stoke forward line, to careless with our passing in the final 3rd, to easily defended against, full credit Nathan Jones, tactically spot on playing 2 up front meaning we cant swarm the midfield, 3 at the back keeping narrow so Roofe gets smothered, good display from Stoke and there manager, bad day for us.

No one did deserved a rating of 7/10 yesterday including your loved one Ali who I did think was one of our better players.

Ayling produced more going forward than any of our midfielders including young Jack Clarke, the lad needs to learn how to defend if he is looking for a regular start down the flanks

[The Subhuman]

I think there's just too much evidence that we're getting the short end of the stick reffereeing wise....Think you only have to look at the penalty stats to start with. We must get around 5% of valid pen claims whereas the league average I would suspect is closer to 30 %

[weasel]

As soon as Pablo went down I knew we wouldn't get a penalty simply because refs seem to think he is a diver, same as the other week where the player stood on his foot and nothing was given. Same as if Alioski goes down as refs have already made their minds up before the match.

[1964white]

I think there's just too much evidence that we're getting the short end of the stick reffereeing wise....Think you only have to look at the penalty stats to start with. We must get around 5% of valid pen claims whereas the league average I would suspect is closer to 30 %

Agree Faaip the officials haven't been great this season more so in our matches at ER than our away games.

I read somewhere that yesterday's ref was demoted to League One & then brought back to officiate a top game in the championship.

[White Riot]

Good Morning guys,

First post on this forum, but I've been following the match threads for a while. A big thank-you for all the streaming links as I'm living abroad and unable to get to matches.

I've watched most matches this season and think this is our best season for many years. Bielsa is a miracle worker, but at times I think he's naive in his honesty, e.g. spygate, posting the teamsheet days before a match, it gives others an insight (like Nathan Jones) that they don't need to earn and they're able to use against us.

As great as we were against Derby, I thought we were the opposite against Stoke. Stoke looked a poor side to me, if you set out your stall to put 11 behind the ball at home, and then just hope for a goal on the break, set-piece or a mistake, then God help you if you're a home supporter watching that kind of dross.

As a team we were poor yesterday and seemed really devoid of any sense of urgency, or ideas to break them down. Individually I thought nobody played well for us. I agree with other posters that if we get the first goal our plan seems to work, but if the game is turned into a war of attrition (Birmingham, Blackburn, Hull, Stoke, etc) we just get frustrated and the opposition seem to thrive off time wasting and winding our players up. That's Phillips and Jansson sent off in the last two away games. Questionable refereeing, but dissent doesn't help our cause either, and its worrying that we're picking up cards so frequently.

We definitely need someone to make us tick in centre midfield, we seemed to just take ages to get the ball advanced yesterday and pose a threat before they got their bus parked again. I do think we need an aerial threat up front and some more creativity around the final third. This will probably come from Brown and Bamford when they're fit. I lost count of the times yesterday when we had Harrison (don't rate him at all), Pablo, Clarke, etc, trying to dribble past two or three players and then losing the ball, and the odd time we were getting a cross in nobody was in the box, or Roofe was up against their big lumps.

I think we will be more of a force when all our players are back fit. I expect we will get promoted automatically, but as things are it will be a rocky road and we could quite easily be looking for a win in the last match at Ipswich to go up. A few more sharp recruits in the next week could really help to give us some impetus and more of a threat. Our first team are generally safe in their places, due to soem great performances over the season, and a lack of competition and I felt this really showed yesterday.

Very frustrating day yesterday, but hopefully we learn from it, as we need to get something from these types of games.

[1964white]

As soon as Pablo went down I knew we wouldn't get a penalty simply because refs seem to think he is a diver, same as the other week where the player stood on his foot and nothing was given. Same as if Alioski goes down as refs have already made their minds up before the match.

These refs obviously watch Leeds often

A naive & inappropriate way to make judgement & decisions

[The Subhuman]

Also shows that refs do little in the way of research as well, if they're swayed by gossip then they're not being professional. I don't remember the last time Pablo or alio blatantly dived to get a pen...

[1964white]

Good Morning guys,

First post on this forum, but I've been following the match threads for a while. A big thank-you for all the streaming links as I'm living abroad and unable to get to matches.

I've watched most matches this season and think this is our best season for many years. Bielsa is a miracle worker, but at times I think he's naive in his honesty, e.g. spygate, posting the teamsheet days before a match, it gives others an insight (like Nathan Jones) that they don't need to earn and they're able to use against us.

As great as we were against Derby, I thought we were the opposite against Stoke. Stoke looked a poor side to me, if you set out your stall to put 11 behind the ball at home, and then just hope for a goal on the break, set-piece or a mistake, then God help you if you're a home supporter watching that kind of dross.

As a team we were poor yesterday and seemed really devoid of any sense of urgency, or ideas to break them down. Individually I thought nobody played well for us. I agree with other posters that if we get the first goal our plan seems to work, but if the game is turned into a war of attrition (Birmingham, Blackburn, Hull, Stoke, etc) we just get frustrated and the opposition seem to thrive off time wasting and winding our players up. That's Phillips and Jansson sent off in the last two away games. Questionable refereeing, but dissent doesn't help our cause either, and its worrying that we're picking up cards so frequently.

We definitely need someone to make us tick in centre midfield, we seemed to just take ages to get the ball advanced yesterday and pose a threat before they got their bus parked again. I do think we need an aerial threat up front and some more creativity around the final third. This will probably come from Brown and Bamford when they're fit. I lost count of the times yesterday when we had Harrison (don't rate him at all), Pablo, Clarke, etc, trying to dribble past two or three players and then losing the ball, and the odd time we were getting a cross in nobody was in the box, or Roofe was up against their big lumps.

I think we will be more of a force when all our players are back fit. I expect we will get promoted automatically, but as things are it will be a rocky road and we could quite easily be looking for a win in the last match at Ipswich to go up. A few more sharp recruits in the next week could really help to give us some impetus and more of a threat. Our first team are generally safe in their places, due to soem great performances over the season, and a lack of competition and I felt this really showed yesterday.

Very frustrating day yesterday, but hopefully we learn from it, as we need to get something from these types of games.

Welcome to the forum WR