The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 19th February) With 13 games to go, how many points needed to go up?

[Irish Ian]

Might need Cjay to help us out here but how have strikers done under Bielsa? I wonder whether all the running around hampers a striker as they might not be exactly in the right place for chances as they would be if their sole focus was just to be waiting around for a chance to come. If he is getting to the right place a split second later than ideal it can make a simple chance just that bit more difficult as he wouldn't be set perfectly. Take the Bristol chance and he has been running into the box to get on the end of the cross, it took a slight deflection as it came to him but because he was running in was he able to adjust as quickly/easily as if he had already been in the right position?

At Bilboa.

La Liga 2011/12

Llorente top scored 17 from 24 appearances 8 of which were coming off the bench
Noone else hit double figures.
49 goals from 38 games Conceded 52

La Liga 2012/13

Aduriz top scored 14 from 33 appearances. 3 off the bench.
None else hit double figures
42 goals from 37 games. Conceded 63

[Ratscoot]

I'm not going to say he's a crap striker because that would be oversimplifying a complex issue but I ask everyone here which statement is more accurate - that Bamford is lucky to be at Leeds, or Leeds are lucky to have Bamford?

When he joined us I thought we were very lucky to capture him
His first season I thought he was very unlucky with injuries
Towards the end of the season I was worrying about the lack of goal return
During the summer I was desperate for us to get at least another proven striker
Start of the season probably like most I was desperate for the season to start and when we got underway I thought Lord Bambi was looking good
As the season has gone on I’ve got frustrated, wound up, pissed off and very occasionally excited by him, I agree he does a lot of work for the team but we need goals and that he only does occasionally

So for me he’s bloody lucky to be at Leeds United

[Ellandback1]

[Cjay]

At Bilboa.

La Liga 2011/12

Llorente top scored 17 from 24 appearances 8 of which were coming off the bench
Noone else hit double figures.
49 goals from 38 games Conceded 52

La Liga 2012/13

Aduriz top scored 14 from 33 appearances. 3 off the bench.
None else hit double figures
42 goals from 37 games. Conceded 63

You did it for me thanks

Noticed that Llorente had his career best season under Bielsa at Bilbao.

29 goals in all competitions.

Gignac at Marseille hit 20 league goals to under MB for only the 2nd time in his career in France.

Bit unfair on Paddy to compare him to those 2 though they were top class level strikers at the time.

What is interesting is MB's teams were best when he had a proper bruising number 9.

Gignac, Llorente and even Batistuta at international level.

They could do all the hold up and link play Paddy does but they were also lethal in the box either heading or on the floor.

We never really went for that sort of striker, maybe because for all those tools you are looking at top level?

Maybe Mitrovic is the only striker in this league i can think of who comes close.

[Ellandback1]

[weasel]

Did they do the chasing around closing down like Paddy does cos one thing that jumps out from the stats Ian provided was how many goals the team conceded. Has Bielsa evolved the striker's role to an extent that it benefits the team more defensively but lessens the effective of the striker to be sharp in front of goal? I certainly don't recall Roofe doing as much running last season and although he probably had a better ratio of goals per games/shots we did concede more last season despite having the amazing PJ.

[Cjay]

Did they do the chasing around closing down like Paddy does cos one thing that jumps out from the stats Ian provided was how many goals the team conceded. Has Bielsa evolved the striker's role to an extent that it benefits the team more defensively but lessens the effective of the striker to be sharp in front of goal? I certainly don't recall Roofe doing as much running last season and although he probably had a better ratio of goals per games/shots we did concede more last season despite having the amazing PJ.

With what we know about MB i doubt anything has changed.

Llorente must have a decent workrate to play fairly regularly for Spain over the years, Conte at Juve, Poch at Spurs, all pressing sides?

The goals conceded could just be because of better teams at a higher level? PSG, the 2 Madrids, Valencia, Sevilla, Monaco etc probably a lot less forgiving then Championship sides.

[weasel]

With what we know about MB i doubt anything has changed.

I would disagree there I think he is always evolving his methods but little tweaks rather than huge changes. I definitely think we are a more evolved team than last season and I think he adapts subtle changes dependant on what players he has and their strengths. Would love to see Bielsa managing us for several years just to see how the team plays when he has bought in players or had the benefit of coaching his players for a few seasons.

[BGwhite]

If Kiko has been affected by this then Bielsa should have recognised it and rested him.

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[The Subhuman]

I would disagree there I think he is always evolving his methods but little tweaks rather than huge changes. I definitely think we are a more evolved team than last season and I think he adapts subtle changes dependant on what players he has and their strengths. Would love to see Bielsa managing us for several years just to see how the team plays when he has bought in players or had the benefit of coaching his players for a few seasons.

And that's the point isn't it, he's managing us like he has years to complete his task. Why I think he's here if we stays down next season, it's be the honorable thing to do

[curly]

85 points should do it that's an average of 2 points a game MOT

[1964white]

85 points should do it that's an average of 2 points a game MOT

Agree Curly

Welcome to the MOT forum

[mothbanquet]

And that's the point isn't it, he's managing us like he has years to complete his task. Why I think he's here if we stays down next season, it's be the honorable thing to do

Agreed. Reading up on the specifics, his short tenures at other clubs seemed to invariably boil down to the clubs either panic-sacking him or breaking their contracts with him. I'd be more than happy to keep him and continue developing a long term project past this season no matter the circumstances.

[Norm]

weasel wrote:

I would disagree there I think he is always evolving his methods but little tweaks rather than huge changes. I definitely think we are a more evolved team than last season and I think he adapts subtle changes dependant on what players he has and their strengths. Would love to see Bielsa managing us for several years just to see how the team plays when he has bought in players or had the benefit of coaching his players for a few seasons.

Top post weasel - hopefully prescient!

[Denman]

Agreed. Reading up on the specifics, his short tenures at other clubs seemed to invariably boil down to the clubs either panic-sacking him or breaking their contracts with him. I'd be more than happy to keep him and continue developing a long term project past this season no matter the circumstances.

I agree Moth. Sometimes in life things just work, they are right for reasons that are often intangible. There appears to be this special connection between MB and LUFC, and I feel both think it’s an honour to have the other.

Would love him to stay for the foreseeable future.