Everton v Leeds Utd Match Thread

[Bongo1874]

Quick question, for those saying Marcelo out, who you bringing in to replace him?

[Cjay]

But bet on those forums, many posters also defend Guardiola, Klopp and Rodgers, don't they? Bet they refer to how much they've achieved, they've hardly become "bad"? Bet they point to injuries or loss of form to key players like de Bruyne, Van Dijk or Vardy? Bet they note that fans can be fickle, it's hardly as if they know more than Guardiola, Klopp and Rodgers and so on?

And bet those who defend the likes of Guardiola, Klopp and Rodgers don't get slated as belonging to a "cult" for defending them? Bet they're not told they're like scientologists or anti vaxxers, or say they give them the creeps etc. (to be fair, I think that was Chapelallman, not you)?

Was gonna say I never said anything of the sort

Regarding Pep and Klopp yes many if not most do defend them. If not at the time then usually a day or two later when people have calmed down.

But with Rodgers no not really, not anymore.

I do like to have a little read of opposition forums and the support for Rodgers is probably less than it is for Bielsa here.

[Cjay]

Quick question, for those saying Marcelo out, who you bringing in to replace him?

Ernesto Valverde.

Proven at improving on Bielsa's work.

Proven at coping with the pressure at big clubs, Barcelona, Bilbao and Olympiacos are a decent size club in their own right in Greece.

Tactically flexible, not adverse to a more reserved style but also not defensive (as proven by the fact his teams outscored Bielsa's in all of his years at Bilbao).

But more direct than Bielsa which may upset a few but it isn't an unpleasant watch and at the end of the day he is a proven winner with 10 trophies to his name and a win percentage of 53%.

He also according to Spanish media speaks English and would like a chance in the Premier League.

[Cjay]

Also can't even use injuries as an excuse.

Everton had more first team injuries than us.

[SG90]

Quick question, for those saying Marcelo out, who you bringing in to replace him?

For the short term this season, just to shithouse a few 1-0 wins, Nuno.

Longer term Matthias Jaissle, Ralph Hassenhuettl, Jesse Marsch, Julien Stephan all play progressive football and give youth a chance.

But think it will be Diego Martinez.

[Tyzy]

Just watched the highlights ,shame those 2 efforts from Rodrigo didn't go in they would have been spectacular

[SG90]

Also can't even use injuries as an excuse.

Everton had more first team injuries than us.

We've used injuries all season as an excuse and returning players haven't made a difference.

Bamford is done for the season anyway. The club won't admit it because they kept it covered up to hide from the fans.

[Cjay]

For the short term this season, just to shithouse a few 1-0 wins, Nuno.

Longer term Matthias Jaissle, Ralph Hassenhuettl, Jesse Marsch, Julien Stephan all play progressive football and give youth a chance.

But think it will be Diego Martinez.

The Spanish Sean Dyche

[Bongo1874]

Ernesto Valverde.

Proven at improving on Bielsa's work.

Proven at coping with the pressure at big clubs, Barcelona, Bilbao and Olympiacos are a decent size club in their own right in Greece.

Tactically flexible, not adverse to a more reserved style but also not defensive (as proven by the fact his teams outscored Bielsa's in all of his years at Bilbao).

But more direct than Bielsa which may upset a few but it isn't an unpleasant watch and at the end of the day he is a proven winner with 10 trophies to his name and a win percentage of 53%.

He also according to Spanish media speaks English and would like a chance in the Premier League.

You would have him over Marcelo?

Barcelona a team that was left over from Pep that had won everything possible and has Messi in it.

Bilbao did he get to Europa league final or, copa del rey final?

Basically took over when Bielsa had changed everything?

I don't see how he's a massive upgrade on Bielsa tbh.

[Bongo1874]

For the short term this season, just to shithouse a few 1-0 wins, Nuno.

Longer term Matthias Jaissle, Ralph Hassenhuettl, Jesse Marsch, Julien Stephan all play progressive football and give youth a chance.

But think it will be Diego Martinez.

Again are any a upgrade on the Bucketman?

[SG90]

Ernesto Valverde.

Proven at improving on Bielsa's work.

Proven at coping with the pressure at big clubs, Barcelona, Bilbao and Olympiacos are a decent size club in their own right in Greece.

Tactically flexible, not adverse to a more reserved style but also not defensive (as proven by the fact his teams outscored Bielsa's in all of his years at Bilbao).

But more direct than Bielsa which may upset a few but it isn't an unpleasant watch and at the end of the day he is a proven winner with 10 trophies to his name and a win percentage of 53%.

He also according to Spanish media speaks English and would like a chance in the Premier League.

Julian Stephan would be a great under the radar suggestion.

Won Rennes' first trophy in 48 years, beating PSG in the Coupe De France final.
Qualified Rennes for the Champions League for the first time in their history.
Brought through Camavinga at 16.

Now challenging Strasbourg for the Champions League and they are 2nd top scorers behind PSG in Ligue 1 on a small budget.

[SG90]

Again are any a upgrade on the Bucketman?

Yes.

You don't know this, but Bielsa is harming our progression refusing to accept good players and won't move on from the Championship sentiment. If we don't go down this year, then we definitely will next year.

[Bongo1874]

Yes.

You don't know this, but Bielsa is harming our progression refusing to accept good players and won't move on from the Championship sentiment. If we don't go down this year, then we definitely will next year.

Bielsa has taken you from a 13th placed championship team.

Too a Premier league team .

You could get Pep or Jurgen in and it wouldn't make a difference, you aren't seriously suggesting Bielsa refused to sign anyone in January just there?

[SG90]

Bielsa has taken you from a 13th placed championship team.

Too a Premier league team .

You could get Pep or Jurgen in and it wouldn't make a difference, you aren't seriously suggesting Bielsa refused to sign anyone in January just there?

And? Chris Wilder took the blunts from League 1 to 9th and got caught out. We can't keep living in the past forever or we'll be back to the Championship.

We were offered Van der Beek, Winks and Ramsey on loan in January and Bielsa turned them all down.

[Cjay]

You would have him over Marcelo?

Barcelona a team that was left over from Pep that had won everything possible and has Messi in it.

Bilbao did he get to Europa league final or, copa del rey final?

Basically took over when Bielsa had changed everything?

I don't see how he's a massive upgrade on Bielsa tbh.

He took Bilbao from 12th to 4th in his first season (Bielsa finished 12th in his last). They got 25 more points, scored 22 more goals and conceded 26 less.

And it was using largely the same 18 players.

There is no question Valberde outperformed Bielsa in every way at Bilbao.

They finished higher in the table in all his 4 seasons than Bielsa managed. They scored more goals, got more points and conceded fewer goals, not just in 1 season but every season.

They qualified for the Champions League and won a trophy for the first time in 30 years. Bielsa was loved at Bilbao but Valverde achieved far more.

The Barcelona team took over was in turmoil.

Neymar was sold (despite him being told he was staying).

Iniesta left after 1 season.

Xavi had gone, Puyol had gone.

The recruitment was awful, Paulinho, Coutinho, Dembele, Semedo, Mina.

He still managed to win 4 trophies, he is the last Barcelona manager to win La Liga, and of Barcelona managers who have managed 50 games or more he has the 4th best ppg record behind Pep Guardiola, Luis Enrique and Helanio Herrera, so 4th out of 26 including higher than Cruyff, Van Gaal, Bobby Robson and Rinus Michels.

Valberde is exceptionally underrated imo and whilst he isn't the legendary figure Bielsa is and his style may not be as pretty he is a far more proven winner.

Would I take him over Bielsa now? I don't know, I don't think it's fair to expect another coach to work with such a poor squad.

[Ellandbach]

It's the inevitability that kills me. Bielsa seems to want us to accept that the big teams are going to destroy us, which is hard to take, and that we'll survive by picking up the points against mid table teams. But now the mid table teams are turning us over. He redefines frustrating because I will always love and respect what he did for us but it was all in vain if we end up back where we started. How can he not see that? How can he not see Roberts for what he isn't? Why does he ignore Joffy when he's exactly what we need at the minute? How many awful, terrible, unacceptable performances before it twigs that some of his stalwarts just aren't up to it? Surely, at some stage, like any half decent manager, the penny drops and you make changes? We've become the whipping boys where any team that has a duck to break, or a new record to set, will do it against us. As fans we give everything and we're getting nothing in return. It's hard to take. I love my club but I feel it doesn't love me at the moment and that has to be because of the boss we've fallen out of love with. He's done. That's it. Goodbye. Time to start again.

[Cjay]

Julian Stephan would be a great under the radar suggestion.

Won Rennes' first trophy in 48 years, beating PSG in the Coupe De France final.
Qualified Rennes for the Champions League for the first time in their history.
Brought through Camavinga at 16.

Now challenging Strasbourg for the Champions League and they are 2nd top scorers behind PSG in Ligue 1 on a small budget.

Seems decent,.never heard of him tbh.

Think I'd prefer a more experienced head myself though.

Taking over after MB won't be easy, a very weak squad and a very popular figure leaving.

Valverde has shown he can do that and improve.

[SG90]

He took Bilbao from 12th to 4th in his first season (Bielsa finished 12th in his last). They got 25 more points, scored 22 more goals and conceded 26 less.

And it was using largely the same 18 players.

There is no question Valberde outperformed Bielsa in every way at Bilbao.

They finished higher in the table in all his 4 seasons than Bielsa managed. They scored more goals, got more points and conceded fewer goals, not just in 1 season but every season.

They qualified for the Champions League and won a trophy for the first time in 30 years. Bielsa was loved at Bilbao but Valverde achieved far more.

The Barcelona team took over was in turmoil.

Neymar was sold (despite him being told he was staying).

Iniesta left after 1 season.

Xavi had gone, Puyol had gone.

The recruitment was awful, Paulinho, Coutinho, Dembele, Semedo, Mina.

He still managed to win 4 trophies, he is the last Barcelona manager to win La Liga, and of Barcelona managers who have managed 50 games or more he has the 4th best ppg record behind Pep Guardiola, Luis Enrique and Helanio Herrera, so 4th out of 26 including higher than Cruyff, Van Gaal, Bobby Robson and Rinus Michels.

Valberde is exceptionally underrated imo and whilst he isn't the legendary figure Bielsa is and his style may not be as pretty he is a far more proven winner.

Would I take him over Bielsa now? I don't know, I don't think it's fair to expect another coach to work with such a poor squad.

Sound good, but I just worry if he is another dinosaur stuck in his ways? Barca fans said he doesn't play youth either.

There are some exciting young managers out there like Ruben Amorim, Matthias Jaissle and Julian Stephan that would be exciting appointments.

But the club have shown their lack of ambition before, so expect a cheap option like Corberan or Martinez.

[SG90]

Seems decent,.never heard of him tbh.

Think I'd prefer a more experienced head myself though.

Taking over after MB won't be easy, a very weak squad and a very popular figure leaving.

Valverde has shown he can do that and improve.

I was a big fan of his at Rennes and his success at Strasbourg has shown he isn't a one hit wonder.

[Cjay]

Sound good, but I just worry if he is another dinosaur stuck in his ways? Barca fans said he doesn't play youth either.

There are some exciting young managers out there like Ruben Amorim, Matthias Jaissle and Julian Stephan that would be exciting appointments.

But the club have shown their lack of ambition before, so expect a cheap option like Corberan or Martinez.

Gave a lot of debuts to people like Puig and Fati, used the latter in his final season and used Carlos Alena quite a lot one season to.

Not against youth players as his time at Bilbao showed but I wouldn't say he is that far from Bielsa with youth players tbh which is probably a downside.

I like the idea of a younger exciting coach but tbh I just want to not concede so much .its so draining.

Such an overhaul this summer to be done, is it to much for a young coach?