Blackburn Rovers v Leeds Utd Match Thread

[CUSSIE01]

Mes has played well since the error .... His handling is definitely improving, and none of the goals conceded recently are on him.

Agreed, apart from the one brain fart he’s been good recently and even seems more confident catching balls. Could have gone the other way after the Sunderland game so credit to the lad.

[The Subhuman]

He's conceded a couple of soft goals. But his kicking and foot work have never been an issue.

Again don't think he's responsible for those soft goals ...

[andrewjohnsmith]

Again don't think he's responsible for those soft goals ...

We don't really know about the Sunderland goal. Strujik says it hit something. But I'd have thought Farke would have said something in the press if that was the case. He'd have defended his keeper if there was an opportunity to.

The other one I'm thinking of is the penalty that was only a few feet to his side and he seemed to move really slow towards (I don't remember the oppo but not the Blackburn one)

Anyway, You missed my point. The discussion started with Meslier not being good with his feet. And on that we all seemed to agree he is good with his feet.

[Carrick Dave]

Exactly pal, this is my main gripe, not only with Farje and his lack of tactical nous, but also the board, we will definitely try to wing it again on a shoestring budget, I know we can't go all ridsdale, butsurely there has to be some common sense midlle ground for us, we are supposed to have rich owners, rich investors who will want to see a healthy return, not some washed up team getting walloped every other week because we failed to invest, failed to address the situation, failed to take into account the realism of the PL.
We also "apparently " have owners that are brilliant at building stadiums, yet we still have empty promises and a delapidated old deathtrap to entertain guests , am I expecting too much !!!

In stadium terms, maybe too soon.

[The Subhuman]

We don't really know about the Sunderland goal. Strujik says it hit something. But I'd have thought Farke would have said something in the press if that was the case. He'd have defended his keeper if there was an opportunity to.

The other one I'm thinking of is the penalty that was only a few feet to his side and he seemed to move really slow towards (I don't remember the oppo but not the Blackburn one)

Anyway, You missed my point. The discussion started with Meslier not being good with his feet. And on that we all seemed to agree he is good with his feet.

He is good with his feet. Though I do recall a few wayward clearances..

[malcolmw]

Then why do we see the same result so often?

Why was Martin able to beat us exactly the same way 3 times?

Why did we approach the game the same way vs Blackburn and Millwall the exact same way as the 2 teams who lost to them the game before?

Fans called those examples before the games, it shouldn't be that predictable should it?

Doing homework and altering nothing to counter it is no better than doing none.

Sheffield United absolutely battered Blackburn at Ewood Park, didn't give them a sniff, just sat back and countered.

Every game is different. There are so many variables involved.

In my opinion you're just not making an apples to apples comparison. We could play the same game this weekend to the same gameplan - and win. To me they had fresher legs and - again - our finishing was not good.

I feel that players like Gnonto and Aaronson, in particular, waste too many good through balls. The supply coming from Tanaka and Rothwell has been consistent and excellent. The main issue - I feel - that DF is identifying, but clearly hasn't solved - is efficiency in attacking positions.

Bielsa's teams also got beat in similar ways once opponents figured us out. Do you accuse him on not researching his opponents too? His track record does not indicate that. He was/is also stubborn when it comes to using his bench.

I do agree DF has a couple of blind-spots that one would hope he can overcome - with or without some of his coaching team input. But every manager has a stubborn streak. At least the good ones do.

I expected better from the players last weekend ... in the second half. I cant believe the dressing room conversation didn't identify key areas for the 2nd 45 minutes. Even Rodon admitted they are a team had not delivered. I expect better from our seasoned players in the moment.

[Cjay]

Every game is different. There are so many variables involved.

In my opinion you're just not making an apples to apples comparison. We could play the same game this weekend to the same gameplan - and win. To me they had fresher legs and - again - our finishing was not good.

I feel that players like Gnonto and Aaronson, in particular, waste too many good through balls. The supply coming from Tanaka and Rothwell has been consistent and excellent. The main issue - I feel - that DF is identifying, but clearly hasn't solved - is efficiency in attacking positions.

Bielsa's teams also got beat in similar ways once opponents figured us out. Do you accuse him on not researching his opponents too? His track record does not indicate that. He was/is also stubborn when it comes to using his bench.

I do agree DF has a couple of blind-spots that one would hope he can overcome - with or without some of his coaching team input. But every manager has a stubborn streak. At least the good ones do.

I expected better from the players last weekend ... in the second half. I cant believe the dressing room conversation didn't identify key areas for the 2nd 45 minutes. Even Rodon admitted they are a team had not delivered. I expect better from our seasoned players in the moment.

I'd be very interested to know what the players really think of the style, probably never know till Farke goes but Rodon has been visibly fuming when he's seen attackers pass back to retain possession rather than go forward or pass forward.

As have the wingers waiting in space 1v1 with a full back for a switch that never comes and strikers making runs in behind for passes that never come.

We have wingers who don't cross, full backs who don't cross, Tanaka has played 5 switches of play in total and amazingly it's the most of any Leeds player.

The amount of times Piroe, Joseph, James, Gnonto and so on show to run in behind and the pass never comes leads to defenders not even tracking the run eventually because the pass never comes.

You expect more from the players, I genuinely would love to know what they think of the tactics and the things they are told to do and not to do because its pretty obvious after a season and a half which is which.

When we are 1-0 down 15 to go and Rodon and Struijk are exchanging 20 passes on half way what are the attacking players thinking.

You said you expect more from the seasoned players but are you suggesting they should ignore Farke and go rogue?

Should Rodon hit more long balls 2nd half? Should Rothwell make more runs into the box (1 would be more tbf)? Should our wingers stay wide rather than tucking in as Farke wants?

Short of ignoring his instructions I'm not sure what you expected the players to do 2nd half?

And not suggesting they hate Farke, lost the dressing room etc.

[Irish Ian]

All this criticism of the style reminds me of the stick Mareca took last season from the Leicester faithful. They lost 11 games and still managed to finish 7 points ahead of us. He had a formula to get that club promoted and he stuck to it, even when they lost games.

And once he binned them off after promoting them his career took a nose-dive.

Fans eh?

[The Subhuman]

I'd be very interested to know what the players really think of the style, probably never know till Farke goes but Rodon has been visibly fuming when he's seen attackers pass back to retain possession rather than go forward or pass forward.

As have the wingers waiting in space 1v1 with a full back for a switch that never comes and strikers making runs in behind for passes that never come.

We have wingers who don't cross, full backs who don't cross, Tanaka has played 5 switches of play in total and amazingly it's the most of any Leeds player.

The amount of times Piroe, Joseph, James, Gnonto and so on show to run in behind and the pass never comes leads to defenders not even tracking the run eventually because the pass never comes.

You expect more from the players, I genuinely would love to know what they think of the tactics and the things they are told to do and not to do because its pretty obvious after a season and a half which is which.

When we are 1-0 down 15 to go and Rodon and Struijk are exchanging 20 passes on half way what are the attacking players thinking.

You said you expect more from the seasoned players but are you suggesting they should ignore Farke and go rogue?

Should Rodon hit more long balls 2nd half? Should Rothwell make more runs into the box (1 would be more tbf)? Should our wingers stay wide rather than tucking in as Farke wants?

Short of ignoring his instructions I'm not sure what you expected the players to do 2nd half?

And not suggesting they hate Farke, lost the dressing room etc.

As Darren Bent says, nobody does that. Good way to get benched

[malcolmw]

I'd be very interested to know what the players really think of the style, probably never know till Farke goes but Rodon has been visibly fuming when he's seen attackers pass back to retain possession rather than go forward or pass forward.

As have the wingers waiting in space 1v1 with a full back for a switch that never comes and strikers making runs in behind for passes that never come.

We have wingers who don't cross, full backs who don't cross, Tanaka has played 5 switches of play in total and amazingly it's the most of any Leeds player.

The amount of times Piroe, Joseph, James, Gnonto and so on show to run in behind and the pass never comes leads to defenders not even tracking the run eventually because the pass never comes.

You expect more from the players, I genuinely would love to know what they think of the tactics and the things they are told to do and not to do because its pretty obvious after a season and a half which is which.

When we are 1-0 down 15 to go and Rodon and Struijk are exchanging 20 passes on half way what are the attacking players thinking.

You said you expect more from the seasoned players but are you suggesting they should ignore Farke and go rogue?

Should Rodon hit more long balls 2nd half? Should Rothwell make more runs into the box (1 would be more tbf)? Should our wingers stay wide rather than tucking in as Farke wants?

Short of ignoring his instructions I'm not sure what you expected the players to do 2nd half?

And not suggesting they hate Farke, lost the dressing room etc.

Oh come on cjay. The players are not automatons simply programmed to execute a playbook. This isn't American football where every "play" is basically a setpiece mapped out beforehand.
The reason we all love football is because of its dynamic nature. Teams and players have to adapt in real time. That's what the great players do. You think Cruyff just continued to execute a strategy that wasn't working on the field?
Frankly last weekend too many of them just didn't turn up. Heads hang and moaning starts. It was one of those frustrating games when the bounce goes the way of the opponent more often. Also Blackburn were good value for their win. They upped their game and we didn't.

Learnings hopefully will happen.

But to now be starting rumors that the players aren't in support of their manager is frankly irresponsible. There is right now zero evidence of that.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Oh come on cjay. The players are not automatons simply programmed to execute a playbook. This isn't American football where every "play" is basically a setpiece mapped out beforehand.
The reason we all love football is because of its dynamic nature. Teams and players have to adapt in real time. That's what the great players do. You think Cruyff just continued to execute a strategy that wasn't working on the field?
Frankly last weekend too many of them just didn't turn up. Heads hang and moaning starts. It was one of those frustrating games when the bounce goes the way of the opponent more often. Also Blackburn were good value for their win. They upped their game and we didn't.

Learnings hopefully will happen.

But to now be starting rumors that the players aren't in support of their manager is frankly irresponsible. There is right now zero evidence of that.

That's a good analogy of what makes soccer football different - the ability for every player to have individual moments, outside of the play book. And the same is true of the opposition too. Anybody can do anything different at any given time, empasizing the need for players to respond and make changes within the game.

As you say, "soccer" (I hate that word but have to differentiate, is so much different in that regard. A coach can put plans and systems in place. But there is so much on the players to improvise and react in the moment.

[Cjay]

Oh come on cjay. The players are not automatons simply programmed to execute a playbook. This isn't American football where every "play" is basically a setpiece mapped out beforehand.
The reason we all love football is because of its dynamic nature. Teams and players have to adapt in real time. That's what the great players do. You think Cruyff just continued to execute a strategy that wasn't working on the field?
Frankly last weekend too many of them just didn't turn up. Heads hang and moaning starts. It was one of those frustrating games when the bounce goes the way of the opponent more often. Also Blackburn were good value for their win. They upped their game and we didn't.

Learnings hopefully will happen.

But to now be starting rumors that the players aren't in support of their manager is frankly irresponsible. There is right now zero evidence of that.

Hang on I literally said I wasn't

I was saying the players follow HIS instructions.

Short of ignoring his instructions and doing things he doesn't want, like riskier passes, longer balls etc what else can the players do?

Players aren't robots as you say but many managers get angry if players do things outside of the set instructions.

Farke himself has in the past, Bielsa did, managers don't like players doing things they aren't told.

Guardiola of all people has dropped players for specifically that.

[Cjay]

As Darren Bent says, nobody does that. Good way to get benched

Exactly that was my point.

[malcolmw]

Hang on I literally said I wasn't

I was saying the players follow HIS instructions.

Short of ignoring his instructions and doing things he doesn't want, like riskier passes, longer balls etc what else can the players do?

Players aren't robots as you say but many managers get angry if players do things outside of the set instructions.

Farke himself has in the past, Bielsa did, managers don't like players doing things they aren't told.

Guardiola of all people has dropped players for specifically that.

Yeah, but you put it out there - didn't you.....??
Passive aggressive to insinuate Rodon was unhappy etc, etc and then saying 'oh I'm not saying he's lost the dressing room'.

Course managers don't like their instructions going unheeded. But they also want the players to take responsibility.
My point before was that we have a couple in key positions, mainly Aaronson and Gnonto, who seem to get rattled when things aren't going their way.
That's where I do agree with you that DF could be switching those players out, in those situations, much sooner. He has a stubborn streak with his bench - no argument. But right now he doesn't have too many options there. Once Ramazzani is fully fit, that may give some choice.
I also am not sure why we aren't seeing Schmidt. Realize he's young but thought he'd have had a few more minutes by now. DF can't feel he's ready?



Let's see how we bounce back against Derby.

[malcolmw]

That's a good analogy of what makes soccer football different - the ability for every player to have individual moments, outside of the play book. And the same is true of the opposition too. Anybody can do anything different at any given time, empasizing the need for players to respond and make changes within the game.

As you say, "soccer" (I hate that word but have to differentiate, is so much different in that regard. A coach can put plans and systems in place. But there is so much on the players to improvise and react in the moment.

Agree Andrew - I too find "soccer" a bit cringe-worthy.
When down your way, I poke the bear with people calling US football "throwball".