Leeds Utd v Watford Match Thread

[CypriotWhite]

Re - The match.
We started all guns blazing and went 2-0 up, the players rightly eased off a little, but still chances came and went, Gnonto most guilty and could/should have had at least 1 goal, for either himself or an easy pass to a teammate to score. Other players were also guilty of missed chances.
The second half - Cleverly had obviously had words to attack Firpos side, and sent his team out differently, Daniel responded with excellent substitutions to quell their control of the match at that point, and returned us to the front foot.
In doing that, chances started to come our way again, with multiple players being guilty of not taking them.
How many times did we hit the post?
Josephs sitter.
Willys missed efforts.
Piroes chances.
Others had chances too, Dan James, Aaronson.
The manager did his job, the players didn't take them, the players collectively had a 'shoddy' night, there were mistakes from the likes of Pascal and Firpo in defence, Tanaka and Rothwell were again pretty firm and maybe carried us more than most.
More goals should've been scored by us, that's the fault of the players decision making, and also for missing them if they were greedy.

[1964white]

Correct, I think he meant your love.
You strike me as a very biased stubborn person that is just never wrong, it seems to be everybody elses fault bar Piroe.
Including the manager.
Do you find it hard to hold your hand up.
Just admit it, Piroe struggles at times, and sometimes he finishes a chance well.
He still has a long way to go to prove his worth.

He certainly wouldn't hack it in the Premier League, that applies to several of our squad, though.

[1964white]

Re - The match.
We started all guns blazing and went 2-0 up, the players rightly eased off a little, but still chances came and went, Gnonto most guilty and could/should have had at least 1 goal, for either himself or an easy pass to a teammate to score. Other players were also guilty of missed chances.
The second half - Cleverly had obviously had words to attack Firpos side, and sent his team out differently, Daniel responded with excellent substitutions to quell their control of the match at that point, and returned us to the front foot.
In doing that, chances started to come our way again, with multiple players being guilty of not taking them.
How many times did we hit the post?
Josephs sitter.
Willys missed efforts.
Piroes chances.
Others had chances too, Dan James, Aaronson.
The manager did his job, the players didn't take them, the players collectively had a 'shoddy' night, there were mistakes from the likes of Pascal and Firpo in defence, Tanaka and Rothwell were again pretty firm and maybe carried us more than most.
More goals should've been scored by us, that's the fault of the players decision making, and also for missing them if they were greedy.

Totally agree, our players were to blame for the silly errors & missed chances, not Farke.

He must have been tearing his hair out at times.

[SG90]

He's the most criticised player on this forum

Unless he scores a a hattrick every game, he gets dog's abuse Yet these are the same posters who forgive Bamfraud for missing tap ins and penalties costing us points.

The most protected player on here is definitely Rodon, who once again is getting loads of motm votes, despite doing nothing to deserve it. It was his lazy and careless passing giving the ball away which started the complacency.

[SG90]

Come April it will be 3 well earned and deserved points already on the board.

This expectation that we will put games to bed week in week out is fanciful. It's as if the opposition aren't allowed to actually try and beat us.

It's one of the toughest leagues for a reason, teams fighting to get out of it while others are fighting to stay away from the plug hole into league One.

Just try and enjoy it for what it is.

It's a wake up call to those who thought we'd stroll to promotion after Friday. We always struggle v physical sides and bus parkers. We got a helping hand yesterday from the goalkeeper, we won't get that every week. Most of these games will be like the Burnley game and be frustrating, especially as we miss easy chances constantly.

[whiteinfrance]

I think one major flaw we have that prevents us scoring more is that we have players who don't look up enough

A simple pass could often lead to the best chance for a goal.

Gnonto in particular is guilty of this and insists on shooting , from often ridiculously narrow angles, when a pass is the best option.

[DDB220]

I think one major flaw we have that prevents us scoring more is that we have players who don't look up enough

A simple pass could often lead to the best chance for a goal.

Gnonto in particular is guilty of this and insists on shooting , from often ridiculously narrow angles, when a pass is the best option.

I have no problem with a player backing themselves when they have an opportunity. All good goal scorers have a selfish streak.

Whether it is the right decision in the subsequent context of the result tends to be the point of criticism.

[Carrick Dave]

I think one major flaw we have that prevents us scoring more is that we have players who don't look up enough

A simple pass could often lead to the best chance for a goal.

Gnonto in particular is guilty of this and insists on shooting , from often ridiculously narrow angles, when a pass is the best option.

He often shoots when he shouldn’t, and over-elaborates with tight passing when he should.

But he’s young, he’ll learn.

And if he got everything right at this stage he wouldn’t be at Leeds.

[Cjay]

Correct, I think he meant your love.
You strike me as a very biased stubborn person that is just never wrong, it seems to be everybody elses fault bar Piroe.
Including the manager.
Do you find it hard to hold your hand up.
Just admit it, Piroe struggles at times, and sometimes he finishes a chance well.
He still has a long way to go to prove his worth.

Perfectly happy to admit when I'm wrong but I'm not on Piroe.

He's class he's proven he's class over numerous seasons.

He's been played in midfield most of his time here a position he can't really play (as Farke has even said) but has still done fine.

Yes he has poor games like yesterday but so does every player

Gnonto was crap 2nd half, awful, yet Piroe gets jumped on.

He's the forum scapegoat

[1964white]

Perfectly happy to admit when I'm wrong but I'm not on Piroe.

He's class he's proven he's class over numerous seasons.

He's been played in midfield most of his time here a position he can't really play (as Farke has even said) but has still done fine.

Yes he has poor games like yesterday but so does every player

Gnonto was crap 2nd half, awful, yet Piroe gets jumped on.

He's the forum scapegoat

That's because Gnonto contributes a lot more to the team than Piroe.

Willy works his socks off defensively, helping Bogle & offensively at the top end of the pitch, yes he made errors & poor decisions but his work rate is second to none.

When Piroe is on an off day, we get nothing from him, he may as well have been a statue upfront last night, his one moment of possible glory & he passes his shot straight at their goalie.

Piroe's best position is off the bench, playing against tired legs when given more space, for evidence, check his goals out.

It was significantly noticeable as soon as Joseph & James came on & worked their tits off upfront, the game changed in our favour & we were in control again, after a long period of having to defend ourselves.

[Cjay]

That's because Gnonto contributes a lot more to the team than Piroe.

Willy works his socks off defensively, helping Bogle & offensively at the top end of the pitch, yes he made errors & poor decisions but his work rate is second to none.

When Piroe is on an off day, we get nothing from him, he may as well have been a statue upfront last night, his one moment of possible glory & he passes his shot straight at their goalie.

Piroe's best position is off the bench, playing against tired legs when given more space, for evidence, check his goals out.

It was significantly noticeable as soon as Joseph & James came on & worked their tits off upfront, the game changed in our favour & we were in control again, after a long period of having to defend ourselves.

Joseph and James came on vs tired legs who had no choice but to push forward so were allowed space.

The idea Piroe is best off the bench doesn't fit in with his Championship record, neither does the idea he needs space because as I said to you last night his Swansea team had a higher average possession in both seasons than we have had.

So it would suggest he is perfectly comfortable playing against packed defences.

People see what they want to see, last season it was "Piroe doesn't provide what Bamford does".

Actually the data says he does, he's better at pressing than Bamford was for Bielsa, won more tackles, recoveries etc but he doesn't run around manically which appeals to the English fan so it goes unnoticed.

Things he does go unnoticed, Struijk goal vs Blunts, it was Piroe run that created the space.

The pass to Joseph, had that been Joseph passing it as Weasel said would have been mass creaming on here, barely a mention for JP.

Was Piroe running in that likely caught the Watford goalies eye for the 1st goal.

He makes runs all the time that because of the style the ball never comes so he never gets credit for them.

He had a poor game yesterday but he also played a lovely 1st time pass to Gnonto who should do better.

Missed a poor chance but the one Joseph missed was worse, he also took a free header off Aaronson.

But he just gets praised for running around.

He earned his start, he earned the right to keep his place with his performance vs Blunts.

And if we dropped a player for one bad game then we'd be making multiple changes every week.

He's judged far harsher than many on here just like Ali was.

I'm happy to call out his poor performances, but the overreaction on here and claiming one of the best Championship strikers of the last few years (Yes the data backs that up its why we signed him) is a bench player at best is ridiculous.

[Jammy 07]

That's because Gnonto contributes a lot more to the team than Piroe.

Willy works his socks off defensively, helping Bogle & offensively at the top end of the pitch, yes he made errors & poor decisions but his work rate is second to none.

When Piroe is on an off day, we get nothing from him, he may as well have been a statue upfront last night, his one moment of possible glory & he passes his shot straight at their goalie.

Piroe's best position is off the bench, playing against tired legs when given more space, for evidence, check his goals out.

It was significantly noticeable as soon as Joseph & James came on & worked their tits off upfront, the game changed in our favour & we were in control again, after a long period of having to defend ourselves.

Good and accurate assessment there.

As soon as Joseph and James forced the Watford backline to retreat 5 to 10 yards we were much more comfortable plus the Watford midfield suddenly had far more yards to cover. The central area of the pitch suddenly became easier for us again and the whole thing looked much improved.

[Jammy 07]

Perfectly happy to admit when I'm wrong but I'm not on Piroe.

He's class he's proven he's class over numerous seasons.

He's been played in midfield most of his time here a position he can't really play (as Farke has even said) but has still done fine.

Yes he has poor games like yesterday but so does every player

Gnonto was crap 2nd half, awful, yet Piroe gets jumped on.

He's the forum scapegoat

Not jumping on Piroe, however he lacks the pace to play as a centre forward and that's just a fact. Everyone can see it and how it affects the way we play the ball forward to stretch the opposition defence without losing possession.

A decent player but probably a poor mans Harry Kane, who's another player who attracts debate about his overall game and whether a team will win more games (and trophies) without him.

[Cjay]

Not jumping on Piroe, however he lacks the pace to play as a centre forward and that's just a fact. Everyone can see it and how it affects the way we play the ball forward to stretch the opposition defence without losing possession.

A decent player but probably a poor mans Harry Kane, who's another player who attracts debate about his overall game and whether a team will win more games (and trophies) without him.

Made the point vs Sheffield United as did others tbf he tried to run in behind often, could see him pointing and making the run.

Ball never came.

You don't need pace to be a striker, just a good brain which he has.

If he was a bad player I'd say trust me, but he isn't, and the club and Farke can't think he is because why sign him?

He would get 25+ goals this season played upfront.

[Jammy 07]

Made the point vs Sheffield United as did others tbf he tried to run in behind often, could see him pointing and making the run.

Ball never came.

You don't need pace to be a striker, just a good brain which he has.

If he was a bad player I'd say trust me, but he isn't, and the club and Farke can't think he is because why sign him?

He would get 25+ goals this season played upfront.

Individual scoring total doesn't really matter though as shown by Harry Kane.

Also yes he does show for balls in the channel, however when it's played the centre halves just gobble them up in a way that simply does not happen when it's Joseph making similar runs.

The debate will rage on as Piroe is just that type of player who divides opinion.

[DDB220]

The question around Piroe’s performances for me has to be considered against the context of the match.

He is a quality player. The poor effort on goal yesterday from what was a very good opportunity is not that significant for me, as all players squander good chances. It is not a repetitive occurrence for Piroe, which is the point I would start to be concerned if it became commonplace. He was not involved much last night because of the nature of the game.

We did not have many sustained periods of dominance or meaningful possession. After taking a 2 goal lead we effectively looked to play on the counter. This is not ideal for Piroe and I doubt it was instructional from Farke. It is just a protective mindset the players develop. We were playing a lot of long balls as we became more annd more incapable of breaking their lines. They pressed effectively and only Tanaka showed any real composure in possession and a willingness to be brave, again this is not a situation where Piroe generally thrives.

Joseph has a different skill set and is better suited to games of this nature, hence why we looked better when he came on. Although the inclusion of James gives the opposition more to think about because of his pace and players tend to drop a few yards which provides more space in the middle.

Every player will have a part to play this season. I am not inclined to make judgements about a players’ value to the team based upon games in isolation.

[1964white]

Unless he scores a a hattrick every game, he gets dog's abuse Yet these are the same posters who forgive Bamfraud for missing tap ins and penalties costing us points.

The most protected player on here is definitely Rodon, who once again is getting loads of motm votes, despite doing nothing to deserve it. It was his lazy and careless passing giving the ball away which started the complacency.

Has Piroe scored a hattrick for Leeds?

As for Rodon, the reason he's receiving votes is that apart from his error for their goal, he made two important tackles & seven dominant defensive headed clearances, plus two clearances with his boots.

If Rodon didn't start, we miss him big-time.

We don't miss Piroe when he starts.

Back to his super-sub role for Joel on Saturday, that's when we get the best out of him.

[1964white]

Joseph and James came on vs tired legs who had no choice but to push forward so were allowed space.

The idea Piroe is best off the bench doesn't fit in with his Championship record, neither does the idea he needs space because as I said to you last night his Swansea team had a higher average possession in both seasons than we have had.

So it would suggest he is perfectly comfortable playing against packed defences.

People see what they want to see, last season it was "Piroe doesn't provide what Bamford does".

Actually the data says he does, he's better at pressing than Bamford was for Bielsa, won more tackles, recoveries etc but he doesn't run around manically which appeals to the English fan so it goes unnoticed.

Things he does go unnoticed, Struijk goal vs Blunts, it was Piroe run that created the space.

The pass to Joseph, had that been Joseph passing it as Weasel said would have been mass creaming on here, barely a mention for JP.

Was Piroe running in that likely caught the Watford goalies eye for the 1st goal.

He makes runs all the time that because of the style the ball never comes so he never gets credit for them.

He had a poor game yesterday but he also played a lovely 1st time pass to Gnonto who should do better.

Missed a poor chance but the one Joseph missed was worse, he also took a free header off Aaronson.

But he just gets praised for running around.

He earned his start, he earned the right to keep his place with his performance vs Blunts.

And if we dropped a player for one bad game then we'd be making multiple changes every week.

He's judged far harsher than many on here just like Ali was.

I'm happy to call out his poor performances, but the overreaction on here and claiming one of the best Championship strikers of the last few years (Yes the data backs that up its why we signed him) is a bench player at best is ridiculous.

So why is it when I make my notes on a game, Piroe's contribution is limited apart from his goals & the odd decent pass?

Ramazani did more good pieces of play whilst only on the pitch for 14 minutes.

Same, can be said for Joseph & James in their 20 minutes spell, as opposed to 70 minutes of virtually nothing from Piroe.

Joel is generally the least involved player in our squad

It's been a similar pattern for much of the season.

His goals have been a joy to watch, three of the four scored when coming on as a sub for twenty minutes or less.

[CypriotWhite]

Joseph and James came on vs tired legs who had no choice but to push forward so were allowed space.

The idea Piroe is best off the bench doesn't fit in with his Championship record, neither does the idea he needs space because as I said to you last night his Swansea team had a higher average possession in both seasons than we have had.

So it would suggest he is perfectly comfortable playing against packed defences.

People see what they want to see, last season it was "Piroe doesn't provide what Bamford does".

Actually the data says he does, he's better at pressing than Bamford was for Bielsa, won more tackles, recoveries etc but he doesn't run around manically which appeals to the English fan so it goes unnoticed.

Things he does go unnoticed, Struijk goal vs Blunts, it was Piroe run that created the space.

The pass to Joseph, had that been Joseph passing it as Weasel said would have been mass creaming on here, barely a mention for JP.

Was Piroe running in that likely caught the Watford goalies eye for the 1st goal.

He makes runs all the time that because of the style the ball never comes so he never gets credit for them.

He had a poor game yesterday but he also played a lovely 1st time pass to Gnonto who should do better.

Missed a poor chance but the one Joseph missed was worse, he also took a free header off Aaronson.

But he just gets praised for running around.

He earned his start, he earned the right to keep his place with his performance vs Blunts.

And if we dropped a player for one bad game then we'd be making multiple changes every week.

He's judged far harsher than many on here just like Ali was.

I'm happy to call out his poor performances, but the overreaction on here and claiming one of the best Championship strikers of the last few years (Yes the data backs that up its why we signed him) is a bench player at best is ridiculous.

Quite pathetic.
Stop the 'love in', remove the rose-tinted and speak honestly.

[1964white]

Individual scoring total doesn't really matter though as shown by Harry Kane.

Also yes he does show for balls in the channel, however when it's played the centre halves just gobble them up in a way that simply does not happen when it's Joseph making similar runs.

The debate will rage on as Piroe is just that type of player who divides opinion.

I struggle to comprehend why a big bloke that Piroe is, but he can't hold the ball up, it either pings off his body or he concedes possession very easily.