Nottingham Forest v Leeds Utd Match Thread

[HarryofOz]

??? Where does that fella keep popping up from?

I think this season has been reasonably okay for game changers from the bench as for a while we had Saiz on the bench, obviously Jack Clarke too and also Bamford (and once he is fit again then unless we change formation we will have either him or Roofe presumably as a game changer.

I don't think the game changer thing is overly valid either given how many times we have come from behind to draw or win, think it is something like 17 points from losing positions so it shows we are capable of turning a match without the game changer.

Agreed

We have a very good squad of players. A good manager - which Bielsa is - will do better than a poor manager - such as Heckingbottom and Christiansen - but no manager is good enough to turn a team supposedly filled with so many ordinary players into league leaders and title challengers for as long as half a season.

Not so long ago everything that went wrong was all Alioski's fault, before that it was Cooper's now it's all Forshaw's fault even though last season he was our saviour when he replaced someone else who was at fault for our failures. Phillips has suddenly gone from rubbish to brilliant.

It seems that there is no grey, all black and white when it comes to our players. They are either entirely to blame or faultless.

This is the Championship, the best players in the county do not play in the Championship, they play in the top leagues.

Our players make mistakes, they hit patches of better form or worse form but no matter how good your manager is, the players overall have to have some quality to have put us at the top of the table at this stage of the season.

[The Subhuman]

Agreed

We have a very good squad of players. A good manager - which Bielsa is - will do better than a poor manager - such as Heckingbottom and Christiansen - but no manager is good enough to turn a team supposedly filled with so many ordinary players into league leaders and title challengers for as long as half a season.

Not so long ago everything that went wrong was all Alioski's fault, before that it was Cooper's now it's all Forshaw's fault even though last season he was our saviour when he replaced someone else who was at fault for our failures. Phillips has suddenly gone from rubbish to brilliant.

It seems that there is no grey, all black and white when it comes to our players. They are either entirely to blame or faultless.

This is the Championship, the best players in the county do not play in the Championship, they play in the top leagues.

Our players make mistakes, they hit patches of better form or worse form but no matter how good your manager is, the players overall have to have some quality to have put us at the top of the table at this stage of the season.

Well said and when fit it's a squad as good or better than any in the league. Also as the top team we're the targets, teams will up their performances if they possibly can.

[BGwhite]

Yes the other teams will always up there game against Leeds. It's up to Leeds to prove they're the better team but as so often happens they fail when it really matters. The next 4 months will decide if they are ready or not to enter the land of £ . It's scary to think what might happen if they fail this time.

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[Chilli D]

Agreed

We have a very good squad of players. A good manager - which Bielsa is - will do better than a poor manager - such as Heckingbottom and Christiansen - but no manager is good enough to turn a team supposedly filled with so many ordinary players into league leaders and title challengers for as long as half a season.

Not so long ago everything that went wrong was all Alioski's fault, before that it was Cooper's now it's all Forshaw's fault even though last season he was our saviour when he replaced someone else who was at fault for our failures. Phillips has suddenly gone from rubbish to brilliant.

It seems that there is no grey, all black and white when it comes to our players. They are either entirely to blame or faultless.

This is the Championship, the best players in the county do not play in the Championship, they play in the top leagues.

Our players make mistakes, they hit patches of better form or worse form but no matter how good your manager is, the players overall have to have some quality to have put us at the top of the table at this stage of the season.

I think we are all guilty of pointing the finger of blame when we lose a game Harry, it's human nature and after all we're all passionate Leeds fans.
I like Forshaw and he has come in for criticism on here this season even when I felt he had a decent game.
However, yesterday he was very, very poor and at least two of the goals were down to bad defending by him.
He wasn't the only one though, all of the back four and (apart from Pontus) and BPF were poor and that, along with the sending off cost us in the end.
What was more annoying for me was Bielsa's refusal to put Halme on after we went 2-1 up.
He could have even put Shackleton on at RB and moved Ayling in alongside Pontus but he did nothing which I just find baffling.
We've been here before (after WBA) so let's hope we can go on another run and can consolidate our position in the top two.

[HarryofOz]

I think we are all guilty of pointing the finger of blame when we lose a game Harry, it's human nature and after all we're all passionate Leeds fans.
I like Forshaw and he has come in for criticism on here this season even when I felt he had a decent game.
However, yesterday he was very, very poor and at least two of the goals were down to bad defending by him.
He wasn't the only one though, all of the back four and (apart from Pontus) and BPF were poor and that, along with the sending off cost us in the end.
What was more annoying for me was Bielsa's refusal to put Halme on after we went 2-1 up.
He could have even put Shackleton on at RB and moved Ayling in alongside Pontus but he did nothing which I just find baffling.
We've been here before (after WBA) so let's hope we can go on another run and can consolidate our position in the top two.

I won't deny that Forshaw had a bad game and certainly was at fault for the first goal, but that doesn't make him a rubbish footballer who always slows our plays down

Forest equalised within a few minutes of us getting our second. Up till then, everyone agrees that we were the better and dominant team. Why would Bielsa break that pattern by changing the team? If there was only a few minutes to go maybe, even if it was just to waste time but there was 25 minutes still to go.

[LevLeeds]

We've lost 5 games all season!!!!!!! Sick to death of so much negativity. BPF this, Foshaw, Alioski that,,,,, Facebook, Twitter its all the same. Finger pointing. FFS get a grip, losing games is part of football. Beilsa's first 5 month in charge of the club with limited resources have been incredible. Simple as that, hes not had chance to bring in any player of his choice yet. Every single player wearing that shirt this season has been outstanding for the football they have played and the effort they have given to the team. The way they pass the ball and play is a joy to watch. Credit goes to the management, the coaching staff and the players. We are playing the best football since the o'leary days and some people just want more. Go an support another club if you still ain't happy.

[NorfolkWhite]

We've lost 5 games all season!!!!!!! Sick to death of so much negativity. BPF this, Foshaw, Alioski that,,,,, Facebook, Twitter its all the same. Finger pointing. FFS get a grip, losing games is part of football. Beilsa's first 5 month in charge of the club with limited resources have been incredible. Simple as that, hes not had chance to bring in any player of his choice yet. Every single player wearing that shirt this season has been outstanding for the football they have played and the effort they have given to the team. The way they pass the ball and play is a joy to watch. Credit goes to the management, the coaching staff and the players. We are playing the best football since the o'leary days and some people just want more. Go an support another club if you still ain't happy.

I'd never urge anyone to support another club but the rest is spot on. These guys aren't robots and if you take the season as a whole so far I'm ecstatic - far exceeded my expectations.

[pembswhite]

We've lost 5 games all season!!!!!!! Sick to death of so much negativity. BPF this, Foshaw, Alioski that,,,,, Facebook, Twitter its all the same. Finger pointing. FFS get a grip, losing games is part of football. Beilsa's first 5 month in charge of the club with limited resources have been incredible. Simple as that, hes not had chance to bring in any player of his choice yet. Every single player wearing that shirt this season has been outstanding for the football they have played and the effort they have given to the team. The way they pass the ball and play is a joy to watch. Credit goes to the management, the coaching staff and the players. We are playing the best football since the o'leary days and some people just want more. Go an support another club if you still ain't happy.

If you truly support a club you can't just jump ship and support another - whether you're happy with the club or not - of course we all want more we're Leeds fans - and some of us remember when we were at the top of European football not just the championship.
Makes my blood boil when people say to me "Still supporting Leeds then ?" Of course I bloody am - I would be unable to stop supporting them even though that proposition may have looked attractive during large periods of the past 30 odd years or so !

[gessa]

Easy to be critical after the event but the writing has been on the wall for weeks, truth is we haven't too many options but that's another story !

Not after the event though mate, put it earlier in the thread, Ayling as come back in poor form, too many games to come back to, after a lay off anyway, Phillips game isn't CB.
If the following had happened , I'm convinced we'd have won that game but obviously I can't be certain.


"Halme for Phillips who inturn replaces Forshaw or Klich. Clarke to start instead of Harrison. Shackleton for Ayling."

[1964white]

Not after the event though mate, put it earlier in the thread, Ayling as come back in poor form, too many games to come back to, after a lay off anyway, Phillips game isn't CB.
If the following had happened , I'm convinced we'd have won that game but obviously I can't be certain.


"Halme for Phillips who inturn replaces Forshaw or Klich. Clarke to start instead of Harrison. Shackleton for Ayling."

Indeed you called it prior the game, I'd have gone with the same changes tbh. Unfortunately Bielsa sees it a different way sticking with the same line-up game after game even though certain players don't deserve their place in the team.

Aah well it totally backfired in the end yesterday so maybe that's a wake up call.

To win championships in any league a team has to defend efficiently, we need three or four goals to win games as right now our defensive shape is nothing short of shambolic !

To say we haven't got a problem defensively is ludicrous

Writing was on the wall mate

[LevLeeds]

If you truly support a club you can't just jump ship and support another - whether you're happy with the club or not - of course we all want more we're Leeds fans - and some of us remember when we were at the top of European football not just the championship.
Makes my blood boil when people say to me "Still supporting Leeds then ?" Of course I bloody am - I would be unable to stop supporting them even though that proposition may have looked attractive during large periods of the past 30 odd years or so !

Not really the point I was getting at. I know we ain't jumping ship an supporting another club, just a figure of speech. Just get so frustrated at the negativity at the current squad and form. This is the best we've know and had for 15 years. Enjoy it and get behind the players, We are looking good, players still to come back from injury. Surely a few additions to come in during January, hopefully we can keep our bigger players as well.

[rab_rant]

I don't think the game changer thing is overly valid either given how many times we have come from behind to draw or win, think it is something like 17 points from losing positions so it shows we are capable of turning a match without the game changer.

I don't think we should be looking for game changers... that means we are always chasing the game
What we need right from the offset are game winners, so that game changers become unnecessary.

[Dalton]

I didnt see the game but for the life of me i dont get why MB doesnt try and get Halme and Pontus playing together and with KP in his preferred role.

[1964white]

I didnt see the game but for the life of me i dont get why MB doesnt try and get Halme and Pontus playing together and with KP in his preferred role.

For some reason Bielsa has lost faith in Halme who has done nothing wrong.

Marcelo prefers to use square pegs in round holes

I personally don't like to see players playing out of their natural position, at this level they are not good enough to interchange unless they have the quality of Pablo who has played right-flank, left flank, centre-midfield & upfront this season but we are talking class in the case of Hernandez

[The Subhuman]

I don' t see any evidence that MB has lost faith in Halme, he wouldn't be on the bench if he had.

[Genghers]

Was really impressed with us fot the most part yesterday, but the game swung on mistakes (as usual).

Forshaw was fairly poor all day, but he gifted them the early goal. Think BPF could have done better with the 1-on-1, but that's a harsh criticism given the situation he was put in.
The stupid tackle from Kalvin threatened to derail us completely, but I thought we grew into the game after that.

I thought Ali and Harrison had good halves and Jack could feel a little aggrieved being taken off, but again Clarke came on and got right at them. We played some great, fluid football in the second half and the two goals were excellent.

Disappointing to concede two soft goals from corners and again I think BPF needs to do better with the header. Their last goal was excellent and came from us pushing for the equaliser. 4-2 flattered them though.

Thought Douglas was as poor as Forshaw. Pushed off the ball too often and played us into trouble a few times.

[BGwhite]

I don' t see any evidence that MB has lost faith in Halme, he wouldn't be on the bench if he had.

In that case why doesn't MB play Halme at the back instead of KP thus allowing KP to play in his usual role ? The lad has done well in his few appearances and also nearly scored against Sheffield United. His extra height is a massive plus as well when up against tall attackers. Baffles me !

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[1964white]

Screenshot 2019-01-02 at 00.06.41.png (110.96 KiB) Viewed 3407 times

[1964white]

In that case why doesn't MB play Halme at the back instead of KP thus allowing KP to play in his usual role ? The lad has done well in his few appearances and also nearly scored against Sheffield United. His extra height is a massive plus as well when up against tall attackers. Baffles me !

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Apart from the loss of faith in Halme I reckon Marcelo prefers to play both Phillips & Forshaw in the same team, by playing Kalvin at CB he can accommodate AF, personally I don't think it is working.

I'll be furious if Phillips isn't immediately installed after his suspension playing in front of Pontus & Cooper.

Forshaw is like an accident waiting to happen, he got away with it v Hull & Blackburn a few times, a total car crash yesterday with more to come I suspect, get your seat-belts on folks

[Chilli D]

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... -1-9516984
Bielsa explains his decisions in more detail. Fair play to him for saying he didn't necessarily make the right ones.