Leeds Utd v Manchester Utd Match Thread - No Raphinha for Leeds

[DDB220]

Been a bit ignored but Bielsa dropped Raphinha today.

Bongo how would you react if Eddie Howe dropped Saint-Maximin ? Not injured just dropped.

That was a bizarre decision. He has been off his usual standard for the last few games, but no worse than anyone else, except perhaps James, who has improved considerably in recent weeks.

The Koch injury today turned the match, mainly because to cover that situation caused chaos. Doubt we would have won if he hadn’t have gone off but I thought we may have snatched a point.

[Finnatic]

Better than the boring bustards that got relegated.

I’ve heard that we are boring already and yet need to park the bus and go for dull 1-0 wins, which I find baffling and also, personally don’t think we are capable of.

[Bongo1874]

Been a bit ignored but Bielsa dropped Raphinha today.

Bongo how would you react if Eddie Howe dropped Saint-Maximin ? Not injured just dropped.

If Saint max had pissed players off for holding onto ball too long and ended up losing it, I would back howe, no player is bigger than the club .

Side before self every time .

[Bongo1874]

I think Brentford will be one of the 3. They have fallen off a cliff.

You could be right but Ivan Toney is a big miss for them, good player.

[Mountain]

Been a bit ignored but Bielsa dropped Raphinha today.

But didn't you say he needed a rest and if he was poor v Everton he should be rested as he "can't play all the time"?

People suggesting maybe Raph needed a rest is hardly blaming Bielsa? Personally in hindsight he probably did but can't blame Bielsa for that. Now if he plays him vs Everton though and it's the same story then surely questions do have to start to be asked? Player can't play all the time after all.

[WhiteRose]

So what happens when/if we go down?Bielsa will be gone so it’s on radz, he won’t be able to sell us. For what he was hoping. So does he keep most of the team intact ala Newcastle and push to go straight back up or does he sell 6 or 7 top earners and pocket the cash plus the parachute payments hoping to get back on the cheap? I’d say the latter really. Manager wise probably best to go for Corberan.

[Cjay]

But didn't you say he needed a rest and if he was poor v Everton he should be rested as he "can't play all the time"?

Bielsa made no mention of resting.

If he isn't fully fit or needs resting then say so, but Bielsa dropped him for tactical reasons he said.

Players can't play all the time but Bielsa has insisted his decisions are all tactical (including taking him off for Roberts).

If your best player is fine physically then you don't drop him.

If it is a physical reason then say so (something Bielsa has had no problem doing before)

Can only take Bielsa at his word.

[Mountain]

Bielsa made no mention of resting.

If he isn't fully fit or needs resting then say so, but Bielsa dropped him for tactical reasons he said.

Players can't play all the time but Bielsa has insisted his decisions are all tactical (including taking him off for Roberts).

If your best player is fine physically then you don't drop him.

If it is a physical reason then say so (something Bielsa has had no problem doing before)

Can only take Bielsa at his word.

So you think Bielsa did the right thing...but your criticism is that he did it for the wrong reasons?

SG90 said they had a falling out, don't know if he provided more detail, but think everyone would be interested in that. Not sure of his source.

Is that what you're saying too?

Edit - Just checked, in response to a query about what happened Raphinha, SG90 said...

Fallen out with MB, as Saiz, Jansson and Hernandez before him.

[Boo Radley]

We played better than I expected. Yet again there was great heart and fight shown but it is all undone because we can’t defend. Llorente, Ayling and Meslier were terrible today. Letting them score so easily from a corner, their first all year from a corner, all because Llorente waltzed around like a tool instead of watching the ball. It was just embarrassing.

Meslier’s distribution was terrible, he should have come for Maguire’s goal and then he was beaten at the near post by Fred. I love Meslier and he’s entitled to an off game but Llorente and Ayling are having weekly ones now and it’s killing us. Without a fit Firpo it adds to the grief.

The games will slip by with tough luck stories and no points if we keep playing like this. No matter what we score, we are liable to concede more. It is so depressing. It could have been addressed when we knew Philips was out for so long. Extra cover in midfield was essential - Orta spoke about it last summer, but nothing was done.

The teams behind us have their tails up after this weekend, and we are in everyone’s calculations for the bottom three, based essentially on the fact we are bleeding goals. I don’t see a solution this side of injuries clearing up, and even then it’s still just a hope. We are in real trouble and there better be a cunning plan, somewhere!

[Cjay]

So you think Bielsa did the right thing...but your criticism is that he did it for the wrong reasons?

SG90 said they had a falling out, don't know if he provided more detail, but think everyone would be interested in that. Not sure of his source.

Is that what you're saying too?

If Raph has a knock or is just tired and Bielsa dropped him for that reason then I wouldn't have an issue.

But if we take Bielsa at his word then Raph wasn't starting for tactical reasons which he also said was the reason he took him off for Roberts the other game.

If it isn't a physical reason and Raph is fine then you don't bench your best player.

You then don't risk upsetting him even further by telling people you dropped him which is what Bielsa has done twice now.

Does make you wonder if there has been a falling out? I have no knowledge of one but we know how competitive Raph is.

Bielsa takes him off vs Everton at half time which Raph is unlikely to like. Bielsa then tells the media he took Raph off for tactical reasons so in effect Raphinha wasn't playing well (not untrue but he wasn't our worst player)

Raph is then dropped for the next match vs our biggest rivals, Bielsa then reiterates for a second time that Raph was dropped, he could easily say it was an injury but no he was dropped.

As I say I am not saying there was a falling out but its a strange one and one whereby you could see a falling out occurring.

To tell the media you have dropped your best player not once but twice is unusual.

For a manager like Bielsa to drop Raph for form reasons would be odd just because it isn't something he does.

[WhiteRose]

Wednesday night could be a big one, Burnley capable of beating spurs at home and watford could beat palace no chance of points from anfield for us. Burnley could be above us actually this time next week with a win vs palace.

[SG90]

So you think Bielsa did the right thing...but your criticism is that he did it for the wrong reasons?

SG90 said they had a falling out, don't know if he provided more detail, but think everyone would be interested in that. Not sure of his source.

Is that what you're saying too?

Edit - Just checked, in response to a query about what happened Raphinha, SG90 said...

Never in 4 years under Bielsa has a player been dropped based on form. We have however seen some of our better players dropped or not included after disagreeing with Bielsa.

[Mountain]

Never in 4 years under Bielsa has a player been dropped based on form. We have however seen some of our better players dropped or not included after disagreeing with Bielsa.

Klich was dropped because of loss of form in the middle of last season. And at the end of the season he was dropped to give him a rest ahead of the Euros.

[Chilli D]

Shouldn't be on the bench if he isn't fit.

It wasn't even like he was a bit unfit, he was clearly miles off it.

He wasn't able to track back for the 2nd goal, only been on the pitch 20 mins.

Agreed but its Bielsa and his team who make the decision to
a) Put him on the bench
b) Bring him on
There's a massive difference between being fit enough to complete all the training and being match fit. He would never have got on if Hjelde had been fit, I don't think. He would have been better bringing Cresswell on, at least he has had a full 90 minutes for the U23's.

[onemoreslogan]

Who do you replace Bielsa with to park the bus?

- Bruce?
- Dyche?
- Fat Sam?

We just got beaten by the most expensive team ever constructed, whilst missing our captain, top scorer and most influential player.

All I've ever asked of any team in the white shirt is to give it their all. With the added bonus of exciting football, I'm still a HAPPY BIELSA CLAPPER.

THIS. This all day. It's all well and good to say Bielsa has to go, but who are you pitching to replace him with?

Bielsa has been dealt a s**t hand injury wise. Our most important offensive weapon and the most important tactical weapon have both been out most of the season. If you were looking at hobbling the roster at the outset of the season you couldn't do better than to scratch Paddy and KP.

It is what it is. Just have to find enough points to stay up but blaming the manager is dopey. I want him back and I want him back with a better hand to play.

[Chilli D]

Redknapp on Llorente ;

“This is their first goal from a corner in 139 attempts so they’re doing a lap of honour around there at the moment,” said Redknapp on Sky Sports Premier League at half-time on Sunday.

“If you’re going to score a goal from a set-piece against any team, you just always think it’ll be Leeds.

“Llorente ends up not watching the ball, it’s poor defending.

“Look at him, his positional sense is all wrong, he tries to get a grip of Harry Maguire to try and compete with him.

“He doesn’t even jump to win it but it’s a good header from Harry’s point of view.”

It's fair comments if you ask me.
Llorente's weakest attribute is his marking at set pieces. Struijk is our best defender at winning balls in the air by a country mile.

[William]

Upsetting Raph "even further" the campaign continues.

No evidence he was upset in the first place. He had a tiring trip to SA and back. Played twice, got booted then when he returned he got married.

But it suits the agenda of some to continue with the guesswork.

Pathetic.

[Tyzy]

Redknapp on Llorente ;

“This is their first goal from a corner in 139 attempts so they’re doing a lap of honour around there at the moment,” said Redknapp on Sky Sports Premier League at half-time on Sunday.

“If you’re going to score a goal from a set-piece against any team, you just always think it’ll be Leeds.

“Llorente ends up not watching the ball, it’s poor defending.

“Look at him, his positional sense is all wrong, he tries to get a grip of Harry Maguire to try and compete with him.

“He doesn’t even jump to win it but it’s a good header from Harry’s point of view.”

Not ever played football I can't understand at corners why we concentrate on putting the opposition off rather than trying to get to the ball first !

[DDB220]

It is because we man mark. There are positives and negatives with any defensive system. I personally prefer this to zonal. We do not have a dominant CB for dealing with the high set ball since Jansson left. Struijk could perhaps fill that role. However, the issue with that system is you just put a blocker on that CB pretty much like sides do on keepers. M2M relies on winning the duel with the opposite. Maguire got a yard on LLorente in the scrum breakdown and therefore had momentum when it came to meeting the ball. LLorente tried spoiling his ability to connect but was out muscled.

[Finnatic]

Struijk did exactly the same thing v Everton when Keane scored.
He only watched his man and not the ball and got out muscled - the only difference is that Llorente was impeded or possibly fouled by Maguire.