Cardiff City v Leeds Utd Match Thread

[Victor_OTT_17]

Would I expect Piroe to score 20+ if playing every match, I definitely would whether he played as a 9 or a 10. I could see him scoring 30 if he had a good season...

I said the same

[weasel]

Ah got it.
Full of pricks.

Give the man a hot dog bun, we have a wiener.

[Jaydog]

Give the man a hot dog bun, we have a wiener.

Not just a pretty face.

[1964white]

Without realising it I've drawn up the old W formation...


-----------------------------------Sprake------------------------------

---------------------Hunter----------------Charlton-------------

Reaney-----------------------Bremner-------------------------Cooper

--------Lorimer----------------Giles------------------Gray--------

-----------------------Clarke------------------Jones----------------------

What a line-up.

Looking at that team brings back all those special memories.

[1964white]

I think we can put to bed, Cardiff isn't a bogey team to play away from ER any more!

2023 - 2-2 (FA Cup)
2023 - 0-3
2024 - 0-2

[1964white]

Just watched the whole match again, much easier to endure second time around.

Bogle our best wing-back, however his colleagues refused to pass the ball to him when he was in oceans of space on several occasions.

Struijk our best CB in the first-half.

Rodon improved as the game went on & was our best CB in the second-half.

Ampadu our best DM by a country mile.

Gruev anonymous.

Both Gnonto & Ramazani heavily involved & showed their obvious quality.

Aaronson busy & lively.

Joseph movement was good, making five surging runs off the ball, his touch for Ramazani's goal was an important one, his goal drought goes on which is a concern!

Piroe scored a cracker with his first touch of the ball.

Farke showed his emotions after 60 minutes, he was furious with one or two slack moments of our play.

[Musicman1965]

The game was ok I suppose, we did the job and got the 3 points away from home. Its the transition from the midfield to either left or right or down the middle is where we seem to be lacking. There is no doubt in my mind the loss of Rutter and Summerville was a big blow to our attacking options. I feel a bit sorry for Joseph at the moment, he just isn't getting the service to get the shots in on target. We have to remember we played against 10 men and still only looked ok in parts. Our creativity in the middle needs to change imo, bring in Tanaka and bench Gruev, we still need a decent Number 10, Aaronson seems to be are only option at this time. Piroe is a class finisher but is not being utililised to his strengths. Throughout all Championship League winners they all have one thing in common.. They are all ruthless in front of goal.. Leeds are nowhere near it so far, but there is plenty of time to get the balance right. Lets see

[Jammy 07]

The trouble is that if Joseph continues to miss chances then regardless of the rest of his game it simply isn't enough to justify him starting every game. 1 goal in 6 matches equates to 7 or 8 in a season. Bamford's finishing was poor in our promotion season but I think he got 17 goals which was probably just about enough to justify his place given what else he brought.

Would I expect Piroe to score 20+ if playing every match, I definitely would whether he played as a 9 or a 10. I could see him scoring 30 if he had a good season. So you lose a lot of the huff and puff but get more goals, do you get more goals a s team, do you control the game as well. That is all for Farke to weigh up but if Joseph keeps missing and Piroe keeps scoring then it will have to change.

You mention the Burnley game with Piroe being ineffective but the Joseph miss was the big sliding doors type moment in that match.

I have no problem Farke bringing Piroe and Rothwell on v Burnley. We were chasing a goal and both of them know where the goal is. It was hardly like we were carving them open at that point so simply having two good finishers on the pitch might have worked if a half chance, out of nothing, fell their way.

As for the subs it is a tricky one. As a manager I wouldn't often make changes at half time. You are wanting to see how the team reacts to a half time talk, changes of tactics etc. You also want fresh legs to be more effective so someone coming on at half time is coming on against a player that heas just been able to rest for 15 minutes whereas coming on 15 to 20 minutes into the second half you have fresh legs against a tiring opposition player..

You also have the situation where we may be on top, have control of the game but not looking threatening. Bringing a Piroe on adds threat but maybe lessesn our ability to keep control of the match, same with Rothwell. Yesterday was a tricky match in which to make changes and when to make them. We were so much in control that the last thing we wanted to do was lose control and invite them into the match. Equally going too gung ho to kill them off risks us being hit on the counter. As it was we controlled the match and should have put the match to bed a lot earlier than we did despite not releasing the handbrake.

As it is though it was a controlled performance and that is what we needed. We saw under Bielsa and Farke last season that there were lots of games where we were comfortably the better team but couldn't put the game to bed so had to keep plugging away for the full match. Given the difference in style it is hardly like we could say that one style worked better than the other in terms of killing a match off. Plenty more wins like this is what we need. We need to be a juggernaut giving teams little sniff against us and getting win after win and this is the way to do it. We have seen other teams in the past keep doing it and the only difference is that we didn't watch their games and see how they played. Take Leicester last season and loads of their fans were moaning about their manager and how they played but they were winning match after match. Style doesn't win you promotion, results do. We controlled the match and took a usually hostile crowd completely out of the equation. We gave their fans nothing to get excited about, we gave their fans no chance to lift their side and inspire them like in the cup tie against O'Leary's side. We were professional but not clinical.

Bamford will battle it out with Jospeh for the no'9 shirt and it won't matter not having a 30 goal striker in the team. We saw with Ross Mc'Cormack and finishing 13th that it means nothing if the team isn't winning enough points.

Plenty of other examples as well of teams having a high scoring player in their ranks but not even getting close to promotion.

[Cjay]

Yes it does seem like history going round in circles. It is like last week and people say Joseph missed a chance Piroe would score but then the flip side is that Piroe probably wouldn't have ended up getting the chance or being able to get into that position from where he would have got the ball.

I would like to see Piroe giving a run as the 9. Last season he was the fall guy for us trying to work out the Rutter conundrum. We don't have that problem this season so Piroe can be played in a more natural role. Similar to you it isn't a slight on Joseph but we need a clinical striker in the team to be able to make the most of all our possession. City have gone to a new dimension because of Haaland which makes it less likely for them to dominate but not score at least 1. So for me Piroe can be our Haaland and if he regularly starts and regularly scores then it means teams have to score to take anything from us and if teams have to score then it opens them up a bit more and makes it easier for us to exploit them.

I think the Man City comparison is very relevant regarding Haaland.

Man City are still statistically the best or 2nd best pressing side in the country.

Haaland is almost totally anonymous in it bar a token jog on occasion, but Pep has managed to coach such an effective press that it doesn't matter and when they win the ball back Haaland is available to do what he does.

Obviously we aren't on the level of City player for player or manager for manager but it has happened in this league as well.

Even last season Leicester were one of the few teams actually more effective at pressing than us, yet Jamie Vardy (given he's pushing 40) Obviously was barely involved.

Few years back Scott Parker had Bournemouth similar, they were about on par with us for pressing and Solanke was barely involved.

And Mitrovic for Fulham as well under Marco Silva.

Are plenty of examples of managers managing to coach an effective press that hardly involved the striker.

It is possible.

So the emphasis is on Farke to make it work as it always has been for me.

Proven goalscorers are like gold dust, even DF called Piroe the best finisher in the league yesterday.

Surely you find a way as manager to maximise that?

If DF can't then the fault is his not Piroe

[Cjay]

And where did Swansea finish in the two seasons Piroe was at Swansea?

10th & 15th.

Yes which actually does Piroe even more credit performing as well as he did for basically mid table fodder.

Now imagine how he could do with much better players around him if given the chance and a manager able to work the system around him.

[Jammy 07]

I think the Man City comparison is very relevant regarding Haaland.

Man City are still statistically the best or 2nd best pressing side in the country.

Haaland is almost totally anonymous in it bar a token jog on occasion, but Pep has managed to coach such an effective press that it doesn't matter and when they win the ball back Haaland is available to do what he does.

Obviously we aren't on the level of City player for player or manager for manager but it has happened in this league as well.

Even last season Leicester were one of the few teams actually more effective at pressing than us, yet Jamie Vardy (given he's pushing 40) Obviously was barely involved.

Few years back Scott Parker had Bournemouth similar, they were about on par with us for pressing and Solanke was barely involved.

And Mitrovic for Fulham as well under Marco Silva.

Are plenty of examples of managers managing to coach an effective press that hardly involved the striker.

It is possible.

So the emphasis is on Farke to make it work as it always has been for me.

Proven goalscorers are like gold dust, even DF called Piroe the best finisher in the league yesterday.

Surely you find a way as manager to maximise that?

If DF can't then the fault is his not Piroe

Man City only play with one holding midfielder and Farke has stated he's not going to deviate from playing two.

Ergo if Piroe is going to start and then we are to press as you suggest we'd need to change manager.

[1964white]

Yes which actually does Piroe even more credit performing as well as he did for basically mid table fodder.

Now imagine how he could do with much better players around him if given the chance and a manager able to work the system around him.

Agree, we need to find a way to accommodate Piroe, however it's strange how Joel scored his two goals occurring when he's had bags of space coming on as a sub in the final twenty minutes, tiring defences maybe the reason.

Also, Swansea probably played a different style to Leeds, more open & not great defensively, plus I doubt the opposition didn't played as much low block football against the Swans.

[andrewjohnsmith]

I was not able to watch the match live today. But I just watched a 10 min highlights package and checked the stats. And It just seems like an awful lot of doom and gloom around here for a road win and three points!!

Could we have scored more goals? Probably, given that we missed a penalty. But we scored two fantastic goals. The first from our new man Ramazani. Not bad for a squad still trying to figure some things out and playing against a side completely committed to bunkering.

We are 2 points better than our record after 6 matches last year. And we have scored the same number of goals.

If we win the next match we will be back on 2 points per game. And we've not even got on a run yet.

So my advice to all is to chill out a bit!! There will plenty of opportunity for doom and gloom once we are promoted.

It was awful watching Paul. Try watching paint dry for 90 minutes. Not so bad if you only watch it for 10.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Correct!

In both the Hull & Cardiff games, Piroe had plenty of space to operate in, and didn't he take his opportunities to score magnificently.

When Piroe plays in congested areas, he is far less effective.

It's a crazy situation, as Piroe is far more clinical than Joseph, but it seems he can't play the Mateo/Bamford role.

I still wish we could get the best out of Piroe. He's a terrific finisher. Would be great if we had him as a 20+ goal striker. Some onus is on Farke to make it work. But the bigger onus is on Piroe himself to improve his all round game.

[andrewjohnsmith]

And where did Swansea finish in the two seasons Piroe was at Swansea?

10th & 15th.

I had the same thought. The expectations weren't the same at Swansea. Happy to finish mid table and happy to have a high profile striker banging in the goals and probably (I never watched them) not doing much else

[andrewjohnsmith]

Watch the whole 90 minutes, Paul.

I agree with all your thoughts, though.

We are yawning our way towards the Premier League.

I was thinking about Real Madrid yesterday and boring continental football. It's all very slow and the games are decided by individual brilliance. Is that a fair analogy? With our talent we can expect to be the Real Madrid of the Championship.

Anyway. I'd probably feel better about things if we'd got the points we should have got against Portsmouth and not lost to Burnley.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Anyone who thinks we should be replacing Joseph up front with Piroe needs to get themselves to watch a game live and then they'll realise it would be a crazy decision.

Piroe had done well coming on late in games against opposition attempting to get players forward and force a late equaliser. Both his finished were excellent but in both cases the defence had gone walkabout and left him completely unmarked and through on goal. Whereas against Burnley when there was little space he was totally ineffective. Ramazani on the other hand looked dangerous due to his speed and trickery and caused the Burnley backline constant problems showing he should have come on way earlier.

This is where a lot of the criticism of Farke is justified as he killed us against Burnley when he brought Piroe and Rothwell on. Clearly he's bringing players on because they are next in line rather than analysing exactly what's requires at any particular point during a game. For example we never see him make HT substitutions to alter the direction of the match and cause the opposiiton to rethink immediately after their HT team talk.

I agree with you in terms of Joseph's all round game. It's much better than Piroe's. My hopes on Piroe are just a wish. He's a terrific finisher. I just wish he/Farke could find a way to make it work. He showed he has the all round game at 9 in the play off win last season. But that was only one game. We need to see more of that.

[andrewjohnsmith]

I don’t want to appear unnecessarily antagonistic, Paul, but most of the posters watched 95 more minutes than you. I suggest you might want to do the same, then tell us what you think?

And Paul .... I don't recommend it.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Last season we got next to no goals from central midfield and this season at the moment is looking like going the same way - balls are dropping to Gruev and Ampadu but neither is making the most of it in terms of shots or final passes and maybe that’s ok as it’s not their primary purpose but we need a tanaka or rothwell there, especially against teams like Cardiff - the double holding midfielder system is just unnecessary especially vs teams like cardiff

Had the thoughts about Gruev yesterday. It's great that we're playing him in a more advanced role. It's great that he's taking shots (that Kamara never did). But he's just not suited to it. His strength is as a holding defensive midfielder.

[1964white]

I still wish we could get the best out of Piroe. He's a terrific finisher. Would be great if we had him as a 20+ goal striker. Some onus is on Farke to make it work. But the bigger onus is on Piroe himself to improve his all round game.

Precisely.

Some fans think Piroe's game is perfect, we all know his finishing is sublime, but I'm unconvinced with the rest of his game. To be honest, I'm unsure how we get the best out of him, he not a No.9 or a No.10, so what is he?

Maybe Joel needs to be played with another No.9 in a 4-4-2 formation.